EP08: I Didn't Want to Be Powerless Again - Dylan Andrews
It was just very isolated and I was very lonely I
know you had a bit of a tough childhood.
Mm.
Grew up around-
A lot of my life was just reacting to the environment that I was in. I'm assuming everything I do is based off fear. Okay. Fear of not being able to, I think, essentially control the environment.
People find it hard to work and train and it's just, it's what you do.
Mm.
You have to work, you have to live.
Going through your injuries and eventually getting cut, was then, were you quite low then or were you just-
Losing sucks.
Mm.
But again, like, my life was prepared for it. It's gonna suck, but you know that it's what you're supposed to be doing 'cause you show up.
I'm just... I need you to do this for the next 10 years. I need you to keep working hard. I need you to do this, and then after 10 years you're gonna be better than Joe Rogan. But you have to be willing to put the work in. You have been willing to do it, and I don't know, man. People have a perception of what life should be or what it is, and it's just like, man, be thankful
Dylan Andrews
Yes, sir
Welcome to Episodes of Life.
I really appreciate you coming on and, uh, having a chat. And, uh, it's a great story. Had a look back at your background and where you come from, the journey you get into the UFC. It's, uh, incredible really. Um, are you all right if we start at the start, like the childhood? I know you had a bit of a tough childhood-
Mm
grew up around.
Yeah, man. I mean, it's relative to the person, yeah- Yeah ... which is like... As I get older and sort of, you know, like I've spoken on this so much and, and something new pops up every, every time the conversation's had. Mm. And I think that happens just with a lot of things in general. You know, you have an idea and then you walk away from that conversation thinking, "Oh, yeah, fuck, something else happened too."
You know? Or, "Oh, it didn't quite happen that way," or it just, you know. It's, it's hard to sort of go back and remember, but just, you know, like sort of like a broad brushstroke of my childhood, like sort of what I've come to remember about it was it was just very isolated and I was very lonely.
Okay.
You know?
And, and whatever reason that was, uh, I obviously, the environment that I was in, it wasn't, um, it wasn't a pleasant place to be or grow up in. So I, you know ... And as kids, we sort of j- we, what I've come to sort of realise is we, we do things instinctively. Like, obviously as a five-year-old, as, as a, you know, four-year-old, five, six, seven, eight, you don't know what you're doing, you're just reacting.
Yeah.
You know? And I think a lot of my life was just reacting to the environment that I was in, um, which obviously isolated me a lot, which, you know, that kind of went part and parcel with how I did things. Yeah. You know? I was, I was by myself a lot because it just, it wasn't a very nice environment to be around, so the more time I spent outside of the home, the better, you know?
So I was outside a lot. I'm not saying I was a mischief kid or anything. Yeah, I probably was actually. But, you know, I was being a kid. Yeah, as everybody- You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I was being a kid and what I knew and, fuck, yeah, you know? Um- But again, my perception of my parents now has changed too, and it's only changed in the last year
So it's like growing up and reflecting- Yeah
on everything-
Yeah, yeah ...
and looking
back. Yeah.
Yeah.
And even, you know, having conversations with my parents now, which still is hard to have, but like, and I'm sure we'll get into it later, but like something happened to me when I went back last year, uh, and it completely turned everything on its head.
Yeah.
How I saw my mum, how I saw my dad, how... It, it changed everything. And, and it's weird that something can change like that.
Yeah.
And when I say it changed like that, it was that. That's how quick 46 years of my life changed, and it was, um, it was... And again, like I said, we'll get into it probably a bit more, but fuck me.
It was, um, it was crazy- Yeah ... when it happened.
Yeah.
But yeah.
And like playing sports as a kid, that, use that as an escape.
Yeah,
man. I think most probably kids do, don't they, growing up? Yeah. You just need something to focus on, get out of that environment.
Yeah. Yeah.
What one- what did you play, cricket?
Yep, cricket in the summer, rugby, uh, in the winter, and athletics in between that.
That was th- and again, back in the early '80s and '80s, those, those were kind of the only sports that were sort of going around at the time. I mean, there was other sports and stuff like that, but sports that was kind of sort of mainstream- Yeah ... I guess you could call it. Yeah. Those, those were the, those were the sports.
Yeah. So, um, you know, and I've found out, you know, today it probably attributes to a lot of my athletic background and how doing that as a child, there were so many variables in sports that I played that really transitioned well into ultimately what I ended up doing in the end, which was fighting.
Mm.
So I'm kind of thankful for that.
And like looking back now, you... Would you say it gave you, the way you grew up gave you that extra sort of driving force, out of fuel, or fire in the belly? Did it-
Yeah. Yeah. And again, like I'm s- um, I'm just someone who searches for things, not... I'm trying not to be over ser- I'm trying not to overan- I'm very analytical-
Mm-hmm
in everything I do I don't know where it comes from. Um, well, I kinda have an idea of where a lot of shit comes from. It's just, um, fear. Yeah. To me, I, I think it's fear. And again, we might have a conversation in five years and I might have a better answer, but for now I'm, I'm assuming everything I do is based off fear.
Okay.
It's, um, fear of not being able to, I think, essentially control the environment. However that, however that manifests itself into my world, whether that be work, whether that be relationships, whether that be sport, whether that be business. The idea of not being able to control something because it could possibly turn bad, and to me bad is bad.
Bad is pain.
Mm.
Um, I'm very much that, and why, uh, a- and again, it's served me in areas.
Yeah, I bet.
And then it's fucking failed me-
Mm-hmm ...
in others.
You learn from the failures, I suppose. Yeah. You gotta... For me as well, like you just gotta take a risk, learn from the failures. Yeah. That's the whole f- mate, me, me doing this, just taking a risk and-
Yeah
learn as I go. Yeah. That's all part of it, I suppose, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah. Um, and like the MMA, how did that, you get into that, and when did it first sort of grab you?
I was always fascinated by the sport.
Mm.
Like, the sport itself was very appealing to me, and I've always been... I've grown up, like superheroes have always been a huge thing for me.
I've always grown up superheroes. And again, I kinda figure out, figured out why that's probably appealing to me, other than the obvious, you know. As a kid, it's a, you know, a larger than life character and it's, you know, they could always look after themselves and blah, blah, blah. But, um, again, the idea of being able to look after yourself, me being bullied as a, as a kid and, and into my teens, I was bullied-
Really?
um, quite badly. So the idea that I could possibly look after myself if I learn how to fight- Mm ... was very appealing to me. Um- And I, I, again, I looked at the sport maybe not completely different. I looked at it differently from a lot of other people who might have seen it as violent, as might have seen it.
I just saw it differently.
Mm. What do you think you saw differently about it to others?
It was just really... I saw just a high skill level. I saw people, to me, what I thought was the epitome of risk.
Yeah.
And being bullied, I know what the fear of that environment is, and to be able to overcome it, and not only overcome it, but possibly win it, was just something that was, was like, okay, if there's any bigger challenge, you know, I...
To me, that was it. And if I could do that, uh, I, in my head, I thought I'd eliminate one of the many fucking problems that I had.
Mm.
You know?
Yeah.
So that's why that... 'Cause it obviously aligned up very much with bullying to me. So being able to look after myself physically was a huge thing.
Were you like physically or like verbally bullied
or both?
Both. Both. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yep.
So how old were you when you first start... When you got into a gym, you reckon?
When I got into a gym? Yeah. Started training?
Yeah,
yeah. I started training at 25.
Okay. Yeah, quite late. Yeah,
yeah. I started very late. Yeah,
yeah.
Um, but again, that addictive personality that I had- Mm
once I got in there-
Just hooked straight away ... I
was hooked. I was hooked straight away.
Mm.
You know? And anything I do, I,
I- All in ...
the walls close in on me and I go straight and disappear into it. I fucking loved it.
Yeah. When did that click for you that you wanted to like take it, but I suppose more of a hobby and you wanted to like pursue?
Was it like from young? Day one. Day one, really? Day one.
Day one.
Oh, yeah.
Day one, walking up the stairs and seeing, seeing the, seeing the boxing ring, seeing the wrestling mats, seeing the bags, seeing everyone in there training. I, I literally in my head said, "This is where I need to be."
Yeah.
That was what I said in my head.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I know you, uh... But probably a lot of people don't see the... Where you got to, like the sacrifices you made, like probably working. How many times a day were you training then when you first started?
Twice a day.
Twice a day, and you're still like working full time?
Still working full time.
Wow.
I had to.
Yeah.
Yeah. Um, and again, I probably not so much I come from a different time. I wasn't that late, but if you do compare it to today's work ethic, it's, it probably is warranted to say it like it just Well, and why do I know this? Well, because I, I run a gym now. I, I see these things. I see people find it hard to work and train, and it's just...
What do you mean?
Mm.
You have to work, you have to live.
Yeah. It's like- mm.
So that's just what you have to... And this is your goal. This is your... You've chosen to fight. I didn't, didn't seek you out. No. You came to me-
Yeah ...
with a goal and a dream, and, and this is what it takes. I'm very honest with people.
Yeah. Very honest when they start. I'm very honest during the process. I'm... You
know? Yeah.
And it's just like, it's why the logo on the back of our top is it's not for everyone.
No. '
Cause it's just n- it's just not.
Nah.
You know? And it's okay. You know? And I know there's a lot of other external factors that are keeping people where they don't need to be or, you know...
Um, 'cause this is a hard sport, man. Oh. It's fucking hard, and it's like it requires a lot.
Very, like a lot of mental and physical resilience.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. But I can train the physical.
It's the mental you have to find yourself.
It's the mental. Yeah. It's- Within yourself ... it's so hard, and I don't wanna say it's 80% fucking mental and 20% physical.
It all is hard.
Yeah.
It's all hard.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it's just like... Yeah, you just... It's hard. It's not easy.
No. And the, the ultimate fighter-
Mm ...
out of that kind... But that is a...
So I, you know... I was very diligent, or I, I planned... I structured this very well in how I wanted to pursue-
Mm-hmm ...
my goal of getting to the UFC.
And this is another cool thing too, and this is, this is... I've thought about words being powerful. I've said it, and I think I've only said it because it's what has been said on YouTube, so I sort of just throw it out there and nonchalant, like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Mm-hmm. But again, probably last year or the year before, I had a moment where I was like, "Oh, shit.
Words are like, um... Fuck." Like, you can- I- i- it's, it's so corny too, you know, because it's thrown around so much. Oh,
yeah.
And it's hard to, um... It's hard to get people to believe it or even think about it. And I... And it's, it's one of those things, it's like your parents telling you, "Don't do that because it's just, it's bad."
And you li- look, you laugh at your parents or whatever. You don't fucking listen. Mm. You carry on doing the same shit, you know? So this is how I feel when I actually say this. Um, but I, I had a process of how I wanted to get to the UFC, and these words that I'm saying right now are very important. How I wanted to get to the UFC.
How I wanted to make the UFC. I want to get to the UFC. These are very important I, I knew who I was as a person-
Yeah ...
as a, as a character. W- what, what, what can I offer the UFC? You know, this is a job. It's, it's a job. It's just like anything else. It's not... It's a fun, it's a fun job. Well, actually I wouldn't...
Hmm, fun's probably a fucking big stretch. But yeah, yeah, you know what? It's your job. It's your dr- it's a job, but it's your dream job. It's what you-
Yeah ...
apply a significant amount of your life to, to, you know, get employed. So I had a job... I had a goal that I wanted to make The Ultimate Fighter. Why?
Because I was a very shy, reserved boy. I had no, I had no look at me aura. You know, you look... I'm just, I'm, I'm not gonna talk shit. I'm not, I'm not gonna badmouth somebody. I'm not gonna make somebody else inferior. I'm not gonna try to step on somebody to get advance my position. It's just, it's in my DNA to not, and it would come across really fake and to try to put on that persona of doing it.
So The Ultimate Fighter was gonna be my... Essentially, they were gonna do the marketing for me-
Yeah ...
in a sense. Yeah. They were gonna put me on TV, and they were gonna... You can write me however you want. I really don't give a shit. As long as I'm on TV and as long as the eyes are on me, you can create the f- whatever fucking character you want.
Yeah.
But a character's a character. Whether I come across as a super nice guy and people just love the nice guy, or I come across as whatever-
Hmm ...
I'll leave that to them.
Yeah.
So I didn't wanna go into the UFC as just nothing, 'cause that's... I would've, I would've gone into the UFC just very quiet, unassuming.
Uh, so I wanted to essentially have a platform before I hit the UFC, and that's why my goal wasn't... I could have chosen the UFC. That was, "I wanna get to fight in the UFC." I was like, "No, that wasn't... I wanted to go through this." I wanted 8, 10, 12 weeks for the world to see me before I was-
Onto the big stage,
yeah
thrown into the big stage- Mm-hmm ... you know? Uh, so it planned out after, on my fourth attempt.
Fourth attempt.
Fourth attempt of trying for The Ultimate Fighter. So I tried three times.
Mm.
Two times in, uh, Vegas. Flew, flew to Vegas by myself, slept on a friend's floor Uh, and then went to the trials, failed, flew back again a year later maybe.
Same thing, repeat the process, sleep on the floor. Stay at my friend's house who just lived right by s- he lived by the casting studio where it was held. Yeah, failed again. Um, and then third time flew, uh, it was in Australia. It was Australia versus the UK, Battle of the Smashers Ashes, something like that.
And, um, tried out for that, and then I didn't make it at all. It was terrible. And I'm, and, uh, this was probably actually the first time. It took me, it was about a day, and when I... Like I wasn't-- I don't give up, but after that I was like, this is the first time I actually questioned whether I was doing the
right thing.
Like, were you c- like close to quitting at that moment? Yeah. Really?
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
And it was because I looking around at the people there and I was like, "I'm better than all of them. Why am I, why am I not in here? Why are you guys not choosing me?"
Mm.
So that night I was obviously, I was irate, you know?
Going off on socials how fucking bullshit this was, how much it sucked, you know? I was just fucking, you know... Uh, and it was just... I woke up in the morning, long story short, I woke up in the morning and dusted it off and was like, "Okay, cool, that's gone. Move on. It's time to, you know, reassess, go again." But that, that as quick as that was, you know, obviously I operate by the minutes, so life isn't very quick at all 'cause I think about things a lot.
But it was just like, okay, it's not happening, so... And, uh, the fourth time I attempted was back in Vegas, and then a friend messaged me two weeks prior to the auditions in Vegas. He messaged me and said, "Hey bro, are you gonna come to Vegas?" This is two weeks. He goes, "You gonna come to Vegas and, um, try out for 'The Ultimate Fighter'?
They're doing middleweights this time." 'Cause the first two times that I had applied in Vegas, they, they do two weight classes.
Yeah.
So that's how they do it, and the- whatever they get the most tryouts for, the most people, they'll, they'll generally pick that weight class. Okay. So they did two weight classes the first time, and they didn't choose my weight class, so...
Ah.
We could play off that, but, you know, whatever. So this time they were doing middleweights. So that, I think they flew in, like, I think we had 4 or 5, around 600 middleweights fly to Vegas for this. Wow. So it was a big cast.
Ah.
And, um, so he messaged me anyway, and he was like, "Are you gonna come to Vegas?"
Two weeks. So I said, "Give me, uh, 24 hours." Then I called him back in 24 hours, say, "I'm coming. Um, get the floor ready." Get the floor ready. And, uh, I flew to Vegas, and, um, I went through the process. I still didn't know if I had made it.
Okay.
So I'm out shopping. I'm out... I'm at a bond store, I think. Me and my mate were there shopping, underwear or something, fuck, I don't know.
Some shit. And, uh, one of the casting agents walks in and he goes, "Hey, Dylan," blah, blah. Said, "Hey, hey, uh, how you doing?" And I go... And naturally I'm gonna start trying to prod. Like I'm gonna- Mm ..."Like, do you know anything?" Yeah, yeah. "Like this?" You know what I mean? And he goes... I go "Do you know anything? Do you know, do you know anything that I don't know?"
And he goes, "No." And then I go, "All right. Should I Should I keep training? Like, as in should I be getting ready?
Mm.
Should I start getting ready? And he goes, "I can't say if you're in or not, but my advice would be go back home and get ready."
Okay. Then he kind of had an inkling that-
And then I was just like, "Let's fucking go."
And I looked at my mate and I was like, "Okay, I'm not... You know, that's fucking all I need to keep my fucking spirits up," you know? Mm. So we went back and then I think maybe two or three, maybe two to four weeks later I get a call, um, and they say, "You've been accepted. You need to come back and do your medicals and you need to do all your clearance to see if you can actually compete."
Uh, 'cause what was gonna happen was you had to fight to get on the show. There was a lot of times where you didn't have to fight, they just named the cast and you were on.
Okay.
So this time they gave you... They said, "Okay, you're in, but you have to come back, do your medicals. If it all clears, then you fight to get on the show."
How many fights did you have to do to get on the show?
Just one.
Just the one?
Just win the one fight.
Okay.
Obviously did the one fight.
Yeah, one.
One.
Yeah. Uh,
and then was on the show, you know? And Jon Jones and Chael Sonnen were the coaches.
What, what are they like? Uh- Uh, ah,
yeah, fuck. Yeah. You know what?
The thing about Jon Jones is, like, it, it's, it's out there.
Yeah.
So it's like, uh, it's no surprise for me to tell you nothing... You know everything. Yeah, it's just like- Everyone... Yeah.
Yeah.
He wears his heart on his sleeve, unfortunately. You know? But Chael Sonnen is, uh, an, uh, is an amazing person- Mm ... and he blew me away the most.
He was so- He, he was such a nice guy. And, and coming from that time and that era where we grew up... Well, not grew up, but you know, we watched him fight Anderson Silva. We watched him play the villain. We watched him just turn- MMA on its head, like with- Mm ... his charisma and everything that he did to sell a fight, you know?
It was unbelievable. It's-
He's about the first of his kind sort of and-
Yeah, like to really go at it, you know? Um, and then to see a completely different side-
Mm ...
which is, it just blew me away. I was, I was shocked. It was... He, he was and probably to this day still is the nicest person I've ever met.
Really?
Wow.
Yeah. He, he's unbelievably nice. On my birthday, he personally drove over to the house and gave me a present. Like, not to see anyone, he just drove over, gave me my present, and left. And I'm just, one, how'd he know it? And then just, two, the, you know, that- Yeah ... that gesture.
How long were you, like, in the house for and, like, on the show running for and stuff?
Eight weeks. Eight weeks. We were in there two months. Yeah. We were living in the house. Loved every minute of it.
Nailed it, yeah.
Loved it. Yeah. It was where I wanted to be. It's what I'd planned. Um, and while everyone else was crying around me and poor me and living this terrible, terrible life- Right ... like, fuck me, this is what you guys signed up for, man.
Yeah. What the fuck? Were
there people-
You know what I mean?
Uh, people were like that out in the house, really?
There was some, yep, 100%. Yep. There was some people- Oh ... that broke on the first day. Uh, and there was... It's a, it's a mental ga- it's a real... You'll know your mental toughness- Mm-hmm ... once you're in there, once you're isolated, you know?
And there's no music, no TVs. There just... You have a book to read, uh, and a pad to write on, but there's... Everything else is taken away from you. Not that I... It all seemed, like, normal. That's what you should... Yeah. It seemed normal to me.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? But it was obviously very abnormal to a lot of other fighters, so, um, I fucking loved it.
Is
that one of the things that surprised you the most, like people-
Yeah. Well- Like- It didn't really because I'd seen previous shows- Oh ... where people are crying and fucking... It was weird to me. Yeah. Like, shit, it was weird. It's weird
Then, uh, so, uh, what was going through your head when you were picked last?
Story of my life.
Yeah, really, yeah.
Uh, it's- You're used
to it ...
it's, it's, yeah ... wanting layers to just prove people wrong. Yeah.
Picked last, prove you wrong, done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's like- That's what you done ... it's, it's not a poor me story either.
Yeah, no.
You know what I mean? Like, it comes acro- people, I mean, people try to find shit on you to, like, "Oh, this guy poor guy.
Oh, he thinks he had a hard life." Like, no, bro, I'm just... This is just what it is. Like, I don't care. Like I... As you could have probably seen by my face, like, I was happy to just be there. You know what I mean? Like- Just season actually, yeah ... fuck me, you fucking guys on the show. Like, nah, you're not, bitch. Like, fuck, I'm here.
Do I really give a fuck what order I'm picked in?
Yeah.
Like, I don't. And it was like, it shouldn't be, but that's the fire for me.
Mm.
That's, that's what drives me.
It's proving people wrong.
Yeah. Just fuck... I don't want it- Yeah ... but fuck me, it seems to be delivered to me you know, on a fucking silver platter.
Yeah. And it's just, it's the story of life. It's, um, I don't, I don't mind the role.
No.
I grew up-
Mm ...
that way. It's... That was the most normal part of my life, getting picked fucking last you know? That, that, that idea, that idea of failure, that idea of, oh, you know, "You're last. How are you gonna react to that?"
Mm. Oh, fuck all. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go live in a mansion for eight weeks, eat like a fucking king, train with the best in the world-
I
mean- ... and have the best coaches ...
facilities, um, everything.
Everything.
Yeah.
Like, oh, boo-hoo. Fuck. Oh, no, I picked last. Fuck off. I didn't give a shit. No. Yeah. Like...
But this is the thing, this is what people look at. Try to find the bad.
Yeah.
Man, look at the good.
Yeah.
Look at the good in everything. Yeah. You know what I mean? You wake up, look at it, man. It's fucking amazing. People... I don't know, man. People have a perception of what life should be or what it is, and it's just like, man, be thankful, man, for whatever it is.
Mm. You can be thankful for anything. You just gotta find it. Mm. And you, and you'll have it, but if you're not looking for it, like, it's not gonna show up. It won't. It doesn't. So just be fucking happy. 'Cause it's easy. You know, I know it's easy. It's easy to say. You know? Yeah, I know that's fucking- But no, it's true though
even when I said it, you know? But-
Yeah, no, but no, it's true, yeah ...
you know, because it's like I even Like I wake up, every morning I wake up and I, I pray every morning. I sit in my car at 4:30 in the morning before I go to my job. And I just sit there and I just... There's even times I'll sit there and I'll go, "Don't say it, bro, because you don't mean it.
Don't say it 'cause you- D- Don't wake up, sit in this car and say thank you Jesus for waking me up." That, that is the first thing I say every single morning, thank you Jesus for waking me up and giving me another opportunity on this earth.
Yeah.
Those are the first words that come out of my mouth. And there's times where I go, "Don't say it, 'cause you don't mean it.
Don't say it because you're not thankful, you're not happy." And the thing is, there's a thing in my head, and me and my partner figured this out. She- we both talk about this. I have a, like a, I have this negative And we call him the villain now. This is, we labeled him the villain- Mm ... which is the bad person in me, which w- used to be the guy who'd go into the cage and- Yeah
he was the one who was the bad one. He was the one who took over and took control of my life. The villain is someone who keeps me safe.
Okay.
Safe. Yeah?
What do you mean
by that? So, okay. So let me tell you, so let's, the villain in fighting, I bring him out because he helps me survive the match, yeah?
Essentially get the win, get the loss, whatever, but he's the one, the villain gets himself back up off the floor and walks out the cage, done, survived. The villain is the one in a relationship that when he feels cornered or when he feels harmed, he'll fight back because it's easier to fight and leave than sit there and talk and deal with the relationship.
Mm.
So the villain comes in, and he, he saves me, yeah? I've just realized the villain's fucking crazy. He's, he's not always needed. Uh, but I've got to control... It's r- I'm, I'm not a psycho, everyone- ... if you fucking read this, like, and please, I'm sure everyone else has their own something.
Yeah.
Or not. Otherwise, I'm by myself in this and I'm fucking crazy.
But, you know, that's just how I identified a certain person who deals with a certain scenario, situation, you know? And that guy What I did now and what I tell myself is, this is kind of funny, but it's kind of crazy. But what I do is I say, "Oh, I'm all good. Like, I got this." Mm. "I don't need you anymore. Like, I can have a conversation-
Yeah
with my partner. I don't need to run. I don't need to escape. I don't need to fire up. I don't need to do any of these things. I got this." You know what I mean? Uh, and you can- I can apply that scenario or that situation to anything, you know what I mean? And we're talking about a previous guy, like, who ripped me off.
We were talking about it before. Yeah. Like, it could have gone really bad-
Yeah ...
had I had seen him prior to not knowing who this guy, the villain was. But now having the time to sort of reflect. Anyway, yeah, so the villain served... Like he was, he was good for a period of time, and now it's like, it's just time to just be like, "Okay, we're good now."
Yeah. Like I, I'm gonna do the rest of my life.
Is that how you kind of having that mindset switch before a fight, you kind of-
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that's the nickname you did on the villain thing. Dylan the Villain-
Yeah ... was my nickname.
Yeah.
And by no means was it a reflection of my character- No ... or the person that, that was...
It just rhymed with Dylan. My coach gave me it.
Okay. That kind of about, yeah.
But everything sorta makes sense, you know, on the grand scale- Yeah ... of things when I look back now and everything else like that. Was that his intention when he named me Dylan the Villain? No. But it turned out to be very-
Fitting
fitting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, in my character. Um, but yeah. Uh, and just this is life and we just-- as we age, we, you know, we start dissecting things- Thinking about ... and
thinking about
things. Yeah. You know? And that's just what we came up with. He's a fucking nut job, isn't he? You know? But he fucking, like I said, like...
And it doesn't even have to be fighting. It can be business. Mm. It can be business decisions, it can be relationship decisions. Like you have to be a little bit fucking crazy.
Yeah.
You know? Like you just do.
Be boring otherwise, I suppose.
Yeah. It just, you know, e- even just from a risk factor, like even- Mm
you know, doing podcasts, doing anything, doing something out of, outside of your comfort zone. Yeah. Something that you find, and it's like you're always gonna question it too. You know, what are people gonna say? Mm. Am I gonna be fucking looked at as stupid? Are people gonna... Whatever. Like it's a real, um...
It's a lonely pursuit-
Mm ...
your goals and your dreams.
Yeah.
Whatever that is. 'Cause I mean, if, if, if they're big enough, you know what you wanna do, I hope you don't think you're gonna get much support.
Mm.
I hope you don't think people are gonna be cheering for you. I hope you don't think you're gonna, like, have these people running down the sideline fucking assisting you all the way.
I hope you don't think this... I hope you don't think it's gonna be a smooth journey. Like it's gonna suck. But you know that it's what you're supposed to be doing 'cause you show up, and you do it again and again and again and again and again and again. It's like, okay, there must be something in this.
Mm.
You know? Because why the fuck am I still doing it, you know? Mm-hmm. It's just... And I, um, I kinda live for that. I live for that- It's mistakes
Mm. Learning from them '
Cause, yeah
Mm. '
Cause there's always... And I, I believe, and it's only based off many, many mistakes, that something good comes from it
Mm.
And I don't mean just make mistakes all the time.
No.
You gotta f- Don't be a dickhead. Like, fucking try to learn from it.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Try to take something away from it, but you're gonna be... It's, it's a continuous thing. It never stops. No. You never stop making mistakes. That's just life. And it's just like, so if you never stop making mistakes, well, then you never stop growing.
Mm.
And you never stop getting better.
No.
And I'd prefer that.
Mm.
This mundane-
No, yeah ...
staying safe, like, staying... Uh,
the, oof. Don't
see- That- that's what freaks me out ... yeah. That's freaky for me.
No, I agree.
You know? So that's probably, yeah, that's why I do it.
Let's spin back to The Ultimate Fighter- Mm, mm
and, and obviously getting the UFC contract. How did that work out? Yeah. How, how does it... How did it go from, like, U- Ultimate Fighter to the UFC?
Yeah, so what they do is they give... 'Cause the, 'cause the season was so well-publicized and it had such good ratings, it was actually the highest-rating Ultimate Fighter they had at the time- Mm
season 17. They gave everybody a fight- Oh ... on a UFC card. Uh, and if you won that fight, you were... they would give you a contract. No shit. So obviously, um, that's the long story short. You basically, uh, got to have one fight, and if you won that, they'd give you a contract. So obviously I won that- Mm ... and got a contract.
Mm.
That's it.
What was it like walking in for that first fight in the UFC? Was there any different to the fight show before? Was it just same old as go in preparation was the same?
Nah, man, this was unbelievable. Yeah. This was like... It was like somebody... It was, it was somebody saying, "I told you so."
Mm-hmm. "I
told you so, Dylan.
I told you if you'd done this, if you'd just... If you did this, this is what you're gonna get." And it's like for me to tell you, like, "Hey, you're gonna, like... I'm just... I need you to do this for the next 10 years. I need you to keep working hard. I need you to do this, and then after 10 years, you're gonna be bigger than Joe Rogan."
And it's just like-
All right, buckle in, man. Like, here we go. And it's just like, but you have to be willing to put the work in. Mm-hmm. You have to be willing to do it. And my answers just got answered the moment that curtain opened and the light shone on me, and that was it. That was, ahh, that was like I saw Jesus. Like, I just, um...
Yeah. It was unbelievable. I could, I, I... Yeah, no. And you d- Well, whatever. Whatever you set out to achieve, whatever you've done, any- anything, like, I mean, to... I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not, like, saying, "Hey, I wish there was a peanut butter sandwich out on the bench," and I walk out, "Fuck, there's a peanut butter sandwich."
That, that's pretty amazing. Like, and I don't wanna downplay people's-
Mm-hmm ...
whatever, whatever's... But I think we can understand that that moment, walking out to the biggest promotion in the world- Yeah
was a, was an amazing thing. Like- And it just, it answered so many things for me
Like a dream come true pretty much.
It was a, it was a dream come true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was absolutely that. And it was just a mix of emotions. It was, you're right, if you believe in something you, it can come true. Mm-hmm.
Like, uh, that was it. And it just... I couldn't believe it. It, it was weird, but it was almost... It was weird because it was like, oh, I knew this day was gonna come.
Mm.
And oh, shit, it's here. Oh, fuck. Like, here we go, we're walking. Like, you know what I mean? And back then too, we were very lucky 'cause we had Burt Watson, who was the hype guy.
Okay.
He's just, um, he was the guy who would walk around all the fighters in the changing rooms and he would just... He would hype them up. But I used to watch it on TV and I'm like, "Oh, that again, that would be a dream." Mm. You know what I mean? Um, that was the dream. Have Stitch Duran wrap my hands, like that was a dream.
And all these things were happening. Stitch wrapped my hands. Um, Burt Watson was the hype guy and he was there, and it was like I was hearing... And it was a movie playing out in my head.
Yeah.
It really was.
Well, that felt a bit like a dream, I suppose.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Out of body sort of thing.
Yeah, it was a very lucid dream.
Yeah. Like it was, like very, yeah Uh, and I was just so re- like, again, you could have put a brick wall and I would've just ran through it. Like, I was just that fired. It would've sucked to have been the guy fighting me. I was just It was pro- yeah, the most confident I've ever been, you know? Purely just based off, like, if you've delivered me this, like, you're gonna deliver me the win.
You're gonna deliver me the... You know? You're gonna deliver me everything. You can't give me this and not the win.
No.
So I felt, like, very immortal. Like a mortal-
Mm ...
mortal. Whatever. I was just fucking... It was amazing.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
What, like, was, was there... Once you got to UFC, did you prepare any differently for the fights, or just- No
same preparation?
Nothing changed.
Nothing. Just... Yeah, yeah. I
still train the same way. Yeah.
Being
46 now, nothing's changed.
Yeah,
yeah. Still train twice a day.
Yeah.
Still eat the same.
Yeah.
So I don't, I don't wanna break character.
No.
Because I was... Again, and I've said this before, it's like I was given, uh... I was given, like, a, a vision of what it's like to feel really good.
And obviously my childhood and everything else like that- Mm ... and the way I grew up and the f- the feeling of not being happy was something that I never... I don't ever wanna go back to that. No. I understand there's times where you're gonna be happy and sad. I understand there's gonna be highs and lows.
Yeah. I understand all that, but I also now have control of that. As a child, I didn't have control of my environment. Mm. I didn't have control of the people around me. I didn't have control of situations, living, eating, anything I have that now. And again, I guess that's why I'm so, uh, a bit pedantic or a bit of a control freak because I'm so h- I'm so hardwired to not go back to that environment.
Mm-hmm.
So the more I... And I know this is... I know there's gonna be some fucking specialist out there saying I'm fucking that and this and that. And yeah, I know. I, I know.
Right.
I know I'm not all there. I know this, and I'm very open with telling people. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like, you just take me for who I am, and I'll, I'll take you for who you are.
I'll take everybody for who they are, and I think that's... It's like we're so, we're so quick to judge people. Yeah. You know? We're so quick to just... 'Cause it makes us not look as fucking crazy-
Mm-hmm ...
by making, like, pointing out that that guy's crazy, but we really know we're just as fucked as well. You know what I mean?
It's just like, don't hurt women- Yeah ... children- Yeah ... your fellow man. Like, be a good person. Don't steal. Don't... You do the fucking basics- Basics,
yeah ...
of humanity. And even humanity's a fucking, a word that's thrown around a lot now because, fuck, we're not seeing fucking humans doing very well on the fucking grand scale of things.
No. But individually, like, if we can do our bit, that's all. I don't, I don't judge like I... You know? And it's based off knowing who I am- Mm ... I think, which is probably why I why I'm pretty fucking staunch with that.
Well, how, how long do the camps last for, like the training camps leading up to a fight?
I would like to say like anywhere between eight and 12 weeks
Wow, a long time
depending on, you know. It sort of, it wasn't so much a fight. It didn't matter. I applied the same amount of time. It was more the environment. Like, uh, sometimes I might do four weeks in Australia, then I might do four weeks in the States, six weeks in the States, eight weeks in the States, whatever. It was all different.
Mm-hmm.
So that was the only time. But roughly I'd say probably 10 weeks at camp.
Was there any part of the camp that you dreaded or just loved every minute?
It was all hard, but it was like, why this... Again, why you wanna do this?
Yeah.
Like, this is, this is what I wanna do, you know? So it wasn't, again, it wasn't poor me.
It was... And again, like I get to travel the world and train- Mm ... and learn and, um, I feel good about that. I feel good learning and I th- you know, it's a good thing.
What was harder, you reckon, the physical or the mental side of the camps?
I was pretty, I was pretty good, man
Mm.
I, I, yeah Yeah And I was, uh, by no means is it a gloat at all No, yeah, yeah I'm just trying to think, like- Yeah
I was so dialed in
Mm-hmm
Like, uh, there was, there was no like, "Oh, do I have to go?" Like-
No ...
shut up, man. Fuck. God. Like I, I have too much experience to, to feel sorry for myself. I have, I have too much. I've seen, I've seen too much to feel sorry for myself-
Yeah ...
to think poor... Like how fucking good is my life?
Like, you know what I mean? Like I'm very, I'm very aware of how good my life is.
I, um, I probably... The only thing is I didn't enjoy it as much as I should. And that doesn't mean... And what I mean by that is like, it was so personal to me, this journey. It was so personal, so I didn't allow myself to enjoy anything. I d- I don't enjoy interviews. I don't enjoy going out. I don't enjoy socializing with people outside of the team.
I don't... I, I didn't enjoy it because to me it was a distraction
Yeah
It was a dist- you guys were distracting me from getting to where I need to get to, and I saw everyone as that
And it's like I was labeled like a narcissist, an asshole, I'm selfish, I'm, you know, I'm all this and I, I don't give a fuck. I didn't care, and I still don't care Because again, like we're talking about before, it's mistakes.
Yeah.
And it, it's... People don't understand too, like the magnitude of the goals-
Mm
and what's required to do that. Like I said, I'm not going out to the kitchen to make a peanut butter sandwich. You know what I mean? It's not like I'm gonna step away from the family for two minutes to go make this sandwich. Like, I need to go. I'll see you guys in two months.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I'm-
So no distractions-
Yeah ...
just that, yeah.
Nothing. I don't, I don't... I love my kids- Yeah ... clearly, obviously, but I don't want them around. I don't, I don't, I don't need you. I don't need a partner. I don't... My... You know, I don't want anything.
No.
I don't want anyone distracting me from this because I... To me, getting hurt in there was, is a really, was right at the forefront, you know?
And all getting hurt meant was just being bullied and controlled, and that scared me
So I did whatever I needed to do to make sure I didn't have that feeling.
Mm.
And that meant everyone had to go Um I, I, fuck. I didn't trust chefs. I didn't trust anyone. Really? I took my own food to restaurants.
Wow. But leading up to a fight when you were in camps? Yeah.
I'd take glass containers into restaurants if we had to social...
If we had to do it.
Mm.
I was not... I didn't want no one tampering with my food. I didn't want no one derailing me from this, 'cause the thought of being beaten was too much. Mm-hmm. It was, you know... And it wasn't even so much the fear, it wasn't humiliation. It, actually, there might have been some humiliation, 'cause actually being bullied, I felt very embarrassed and humiliated because it was always done in public.
So I felt that.
Mm-hmm.
So actually, no, there probably was. I'm not gonna say I wasn't. It probably was the humiliation of losing too, and not only the humiliation of losing, but the way we're fighting again, bullying, fighting. You're gonna hit me and I'm, I'm not gonna be able to fight back. I'm not gonna be able to defend myself.
I'm not gonna be able to win this. So those thoughts are just like, they're, they're right there. There could not be any more there for me to think about than that.
Mm.
And that's what drove me, and it's like your traumas can send you in two directions. You can do good or bad- Yeah ... with your trauma.
I found that.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's- I was bad for- You have two directions ... mm-hmm You know what I mean? And you might even go down one direction and then go down the other.
Yeah. That's what I'm trying to do now.
You know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Exactly. It's not even gonna be a case of right or wrong. It's like you might have to do wrong for a very long time-
Yeah.
Yeah ...
and then jump ship.
Yeah.
And then go, "Okay, I can't do this anymore. It hurts too much."
That's
what I
found, yeah. Yeah.
And it's just like, okay, I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna try this side and s- and see if it's any better.
Mm.
Because it can't get any worse on this side. No. This side's fucked.
Yeah. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
This side of fucking self-fucking destruction and, and everything else that comes with it, drugs, alcohol- Yeah ... relationships, fucking everything-
Mm-hmm ...
partying, it's just not working.
No.
And it's like, it takes a strong person. Like, it really does. Whether you get told it or not, most of the times you don't, unless you're around people who've sort of experienced it- Yeah
and done it. Like, it's a fucking hard thing to do. Um, but it just... I was... I fucked up a lot as a kid growing up and stuff like that, but I don't think it was, it was... It wasn't too self-harming It was pity shit because I was very, I was very aware of what the bad side was just based off my environment.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So I was very mindful about alcohol. I was very mindful about drugs. I was very mindful about gangs. I was very mindful about just bad people in general. Were you
ever close to going down that route?
No.
No, you just, you just- It
never appealed to me-
Yeah ... '
cause I saw it.
And you just, yeah. Wanted to
stay- I saw what alcohol did to people.
I saw what drugs did to people. And I, I still remember this, like I still just re- remember my brother, like just he, he was a drug addict. And I just remember seeing him rocking back on the bed, rocking back and forth, rocking back and forth, and I just re- It's just a very vivid image I have.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I remember it freaking me out because to me, my oldest brother was, he was my superhero.
He was the one I looked up to. He was big. He was strong. He was, he was pitted to do very well in rugby and, you know, his career and stuff. And it wasn't just a case of, yeah, my brother's good. Like he really was picked to be something special.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then being a drug addict from a very, very early age, and seeing him rocking back and forth on my bed, and I sort of remember asking Mum, like, "What's wrong with him?
What's wrong with him?" And then I remember seeing him being taken away, and he was put in a mental hospital, put in a mental institution. Um, and I remember going and visiting him and I, I literally remember walking through the doors and I see Santa Claus sitting there. Crazy, crazy fucking Santa Claus.
Santa-- It wasn't the real Santa Claus. This was a made-up Santa Claus- Yeah ... who's fucking rocking back and fucking losing his shit. And I'm just like, I'm looking around, I'm like, "Why is my brother here?" Mm. Like, "Why is he in this place? These people are fucking crazy."
How old were you when-
I-- Fuck, I'd like to think I was like maybe eight.
So you didn't un- yeah, fully understand what
was going
on. No,
I didn't understand it, you know? Um-
Man, seeing that at eight, innit?
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Yeah. And I've just, I've just seen some really bad stuff- Mm ... you know? Um, but it's, it's life. It sucks, you know? But it, it does. It really, um-
Use that as a sort of a fuel to-
Yeah
get where you got to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. It really is.
Yeah.
Yeah. I was dealt like the harshest lessons very early on in life. Mm. Um, and it kinda maybe propelled me
For finding something more, wanting something different
Yeah
Yeah
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. And again, I'm still answering questions in my own head- Yeah
you know? And I know I'll be doing it for a very long time- Mm ... you know? Um, 'cause that's just life, you know? And it's just a process and I'm, I... For me, it's about just being consistent with the process. Like, that, that's my therapy. Like, I, I don't, um, have any... I'm not under the illusion that I can be fixed, but I am of that if I just keep working, if I keep trying to do things day by day, trying to be a good person, trying to be a good human, however that looks, however that's relative to me and what I do, then that's progress.
Mm-hmm.
Because if I, again, if I was to sit here and just say, "Fuck, this is my trauma and this is me, I'm fucking done for the rest of my life," I'll be fucked.
Mm-hmm.
But I, I know it's there. I know it's go- I know it's gonna be there for the rest of my life. Why? Because it's just... I just don't think you can black it out.
Mm. I don't think you can black shit out. Like, yeah, you can suppress it, but it's gonna come back.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
And it's gonna come back in a fucking terrible way.
Some people, that's why people go to something like drugs and drinks- Yeah ... suppress it and-
Yeah ...
not think about it, and it's like the wrong route, I suppose, when you-
Yeah
find that, or I found that. It's-
Yeah ...
doesn't... Makes it sort of worse off. Yeah, it's
just- Yeah.
But-
Yeah. So, I mean, that's kinda why I just sorta draw that conclusion. And everything I say and do is just based off experience. Mm. It's, it's not like I'm on fucking YouTube, like fucking following people and- Mm
like trying to regurgitate what they say to make myself feel better.
No.
Like, I literally just say what's in my head. You know what? I don't- I think so, yeah ... I just say what's in my head.
Yeah.
And it sometimes comes off as hard to some people, but it's like as long as, you know, you gotta just explain to people like the, this is who I am.
Like- Just be honest, yeah ... this is... I just, I can't... It, it, it morally feels so wrong to me to, to lie to tell you something that I don't believe.
No.
Like-
Do you, do, like, do you take that into your coaching?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. I do. Like
very just-
Yeah ...
don't play, don't like... Yeah- No ... just straight to it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they'll try to give me excuses and I'll, I'll call bullshit-
Yeah ...
like straight away. Mm. I'll call bullshit and I'll, I'll call bullshit. I'll give them the reason for why I'm calling bullshit, and I'm gonna tell them what they need to do in order to fix it.
Mm.
Once that's done, cool, out of my hands.
Yeah.
But don't come and lie to me. No. Don't... I don't... I've fucking been here. And, and not even as a fighter, just as life.
Yeah.
You know what? You don't- No ... you don't need to be a fighter-
No ...
to understand excuses.
How did you like the transition into coaching? How did that come about and the, having the gym and...
I think it was a natural progression.
Yeah.
It was just something I- There's no other way to go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No. And it wasn't a case of like, um- Yeah, it was a, it was a natural progression of something that I love and it's like, why would you not wanna do this for the rest of your life? And it is something that I want to do- Mm
for the rest of my life. But I want to build something Bigger than me in coaching. Everything I do has to be, it has to mean something, you know? So this is just the next venture, uh, and I will make it great.
What's your, like, aspirations with the coaching then? What's the-
I don't, I don't have-
There's no limit
I don't have aspirations of world champions- No
Everything is related to where I come from and how I grew up. And I'm... If a man comes to me broken and he leaves semi-unbroken or leaves with tools to help himself, better himself and however that looks to him, that's relative to him, that's, that's my world champion.
Yeah.
Those are my w- the, the world champion's a by-product, and that'll come.
That, that, that's gonna come, but that's not my, um... That's, that's done to me. It's that, that's a finished product. Mm. That's, that's gonna happen. It was like the UFC. That's done. I'm in the UFC, now let's just work towards it.
Mm-hmm.
Same with world champ. Now it's I'm trying to build men. That is the whole purpose, the sole purpose of that gym.
Fair. 'Cause everything else is-
Good example. That's setting a good example and kind of building people's mental resilience- Yeah ... mental strength, mental everything, really.
Yeah. It's mental... Yeah. Yeah. And I just think fighting is just a great way to do it.
Do it. Yeah.
You know what I mean? It's, it's not something that I thought, hey, this is gonna be a great thing, I think we should do this.
It's not, I didn't learn it for that reason. I fell into it, you know? And it's, it helped me tremendously. And like any- like anything, you know what I mean? You might... You know, when you become really successful in whatever it is you do, podcasting, whatever, naturally you're gonna, you're gonna have that emotion towards podcasting and you're gonna wanna share that gift.
Yeah.
You're gonna, you're gonna say, listen... You're gonna, you're gonna do your tutorials, you're gonna do, you're gonna blow up and you're gonna say, hey, listen, this is what changed my life for whatever reason. And, and you're gonna be... And you're gonna coach it and you're gonna teach it and you're gonna spread it, and it's...
Why? Because it changed your life profoundly, whatever that is, yeah? It allowed you to speak. It gives you a platform to have a conversation, not only to the people you're speaking to, but to yourself. Th- th- when I do stuff like this, this is my diary. My partner, my wife tells me to write things down.
Yeah.
I talk to people every day.
Mm.
I don't need to write down. I don't. Like, I, I, I enjoy these conversations.
Mm.
They're, they're not always about the other person. No. I ta- 90% of the time they're actually about me- ... 'cause there's so much shit in my head.
Yeah.
Um, and I'm just... I don't write. I'm not a writer.
Mm.
I try to, but I'm like, it's just not me.
No, yeah.
I'd ra- I, I enjoy the human interaction, which I think is what we're lacking-
Yeah ... today. I, I, I agree with you. No, no, yeah.
I just enjoy having a conversation.
A lot of people now don't know how to have a conversation.
No, it's fucking shocking.
Yeah.
Uh- It really is shocking ...
yeah.
Like, I see teenagers sitting at the mall or whatever and they's all on their phones.
Mm. They don't even speak to each other.
No.
It's fucking terrible.
And-
Um, so it's just I prefer that method of writing-
Yeah ...
is communication.
No, I agree with you. So- It is probably-
Yeah ...
ah, one of the best things for the mental welfare- Yeah ... just sitting down and having a conversation.
Well, that's all they say to do, eh?
Yeah. Talk, talk to someone.
Yeah.
But, uh, I think- The act of talking to someone has been demonized Mm-hmm ... which is why it doesn't... Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's crazy.
It is,
yeah. Like, it doesn't even have to be about how fucked up you are. You can just have a conversation. "What'd you do today?
Nothing? Hmm, that's fucking boring. What are you gonna do? Nothing? Why not?" Why? Yeah, and it just starts. Mm. It doesn't always have to be this conversation of man to man, like, "So how are you feeling today?"
Mm. "
What are you feeling? No, what do you really feel?" Like f- Like, why do men not wanna s- why do men not speak?
Well- Fuck ... 'cause that's how you start the conversation off. Make me feel like a fucking-
Uh ...
something. Whatever word, I don't know. Beep. You know, it just, just speak. Mm. You're men, just, you know, have a conversation. It doesn't always have to be so fucking serious. No, yeah. You know what I mean? It can lead to that, and it usually does once a man's comfortable and can have that conversation.
But if you start it off with, "Fuck, ooh," you know?
Mm. "
How are you feeling today, mate?" You know? It's, "Mm." I don't know, personally. And, and again, some people might react to it, but I just, as a man, speaking to men every single day- It's, it's, that's how... It's just a conversation starter. It's just like... And you can pick up on somebody if they're not fucking feeling- Yeah
you, you just know. You know, you, you know people. If you fucking look hard enough, if you actually, if you actually have these conversations with men instead of online or fucking through a phone, you can actually get to know somebody.
Yeah.
So you know their, you know their manner- like I know every single member in my fucking gym.
Mm. And I know when something's up with all of them. You just know it, you know what I mean? You know a man, it doesn't take much either. If he walks down with his head down, he doesn't say a fucking word when he walks in, something's happened.
Mm.
Whether that's relationship, whether that's work, and it's usually one of those two things.
Yeah.
Relationship or work, and it's just like, "You all good, man?" That's it, you know? Easy, yeah.
It
might start something.
Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't take
much. Yeah. But if you just look at them and like, "Hey bro, I know something's up, man, but you all good?" You can-
Yeah ...
and you have to be genuine about it too, you know what I mean?
You have to really fucking care.
Mm.
And people see that, which is why I like this shit.
Mm.
Uh, that's why I don't like talking through fucking phones. I don't like text message. You... This is what freaks people out too. When people call me, I switch to FaceTime.
Yeah.
I always-- I wanna see their face. No one likes it.
Yeah. Uh, no one likes it. They don't like FaceTiming, and they go, "Why are you FaceTiming me, bro?" "Well, I wanna see your face." They're like, "Why?" "I don't know. I just prefer it."
Mm. "
I can tell if you're lying or not." That's what I say. Yeah. You know?
Yeah.
So it's like, I just prefer that method, and again, I'm not gonna fucking tell everyone that.
I have to go and fucking FaceTime them. Yeah. It's, it's just like, let's get back to fucking being humans. Yeah.
Was there... Like talking about mental health and men's mental health- Mm ... when you, going through your injuries and eventually getting cut, was then... Were you quite low then or were you just...
Yep, I was.
Mm. Yeah, I was low. '
Cause you put... So the injury's called-- The shoulder injury, I saw it. I've watched the highlights of that fight. Mm. Your shoulder popped out- Yeah ... but you had that brutal knockout in the third round.
Yeah. Yep.
And just...
So, you know, losing sucks.
Mm.
But again, like, my life was prepared for it.
Mm.
I prepared for it. Did it suck? Yeah, of course. It's low. Fuck. We all lose. You know, we all lose- Mm ... and it's just like... And I have people still come to me and say, "Yeah, well, you weren't as good as you thought you were. You know, you weren't as high ranking as that, so that's why you don't care about losing."
Like shut the fuck up. Like if I'd lost at five years old, I still would've been gutted. Like I've just... I'm always that person. It doesn't matter the magnitude of a loss. Um, I was still very gutted, but I'm not... It's like, what do I do now? That, that was it, and it's like, okay, well, train. Keep training. Do that, 'cause that's what we know, and that was one of the things that got you out of where you were before.
So I just stuck to the basics, even though I didn't feel good, even though I felt terrible, and that's why I didn't come back and have another fight for almost three years. But again, that's another story too. But it answered a lot of questions coming back after almost three years. Uh, but it, yeah, it sucked.
I was, I was... I held a grudge. You know, I had a poor me moment where I was like, "I've worked so hard. Why are you taking this away from me?" Um- And it's taken years to figure out why Mm.
How did you find out
that you- That I was cut?
Yeah.
Just through an email.
Email?
Just seen your email. Yeah, it's pretty brutal.
That is, yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty brutal.
Wow.
Um, yeah. If, yeah, if the media doesn't find out first.
Mm.
Um, but just an email. That's it.
Keep trying and come back and then whatever.
I don't need your fucking pep talk. If I'm back, I'm back. Yeah. You know? That it's like, yeah, I don't need... I didn't need that. But it was, yeah, I did feel like I'd given so much to the sport and it was like, oh man.
It's like, uh, uh... And it was injuries too, like it was, it was injuries and then, you know, knocking myself out, falling the wrong way and it's t- it's taken years, like literally last couple of years has... And not even so much to get the answers, but just be okay with it.
Mm.
Like, well, what has it done for you?
You know what I mean? And now it's time to reflect on business and okay, if I hadn't done this, this wouldn't have happened, and it's just a process of elimination-
Mm ...
of the bads and weighing them up with the goods and that's how I sort of navigated and got through it.
And what lessons you, did you learn the hard way that you now, like teach people at your fi- like coaching?
Yeah. Okay. So this is hard too.
Mm.
This is really hard for me to Because I was so disciplined
You get frustrated when people aren't?
Yeah
Yeah.
That's, that's it
Mm.
Like I c- I can't, I can't... It's... And this is, is very lonely for me too in this role because I can't, um, I can't get on board with anything. I can't get on board with not being 100% committed to your diet.
I can't get on board with not being 100% committed to training. I can't be... I can't get on board with you're high, you're low, you're sad, you're this, you're that. I don't care. I don't, I don't care 'cause I, I never took a shortcut.
No.
So, and again, this was a question that was asked to me last week or something like that, like if you could do something different, what would it be?
I thought nothing. There is... I c- And believe... And again, I'm not trying to come off as perfect or anything.
Mm.
But I can't. I can't look back. Again, we might have a conversation in five years and I might be able to say, "I found one."
Mm.
But right now, after being out of the sport for over 10 years, like I can't, I can't find any shortcuts that I took 'cause it, again, I had the, I had the bully, I had the trauma on my back chasing me all the way to the fucking cage- Mm
every single time. I was too scared. I was too afraid. I had to, I had to do this, you know? Which makes it hard for coaching.
Mm. '
Cause I know these boys, especially today, it's just, it's different and you have to have a different approach, but I don't have a different approach and I don't want a different approach.
No. And they're very aware they're not gonna get a different approach. So I've hired my coach who helped me get to the UFC- Uh-huh ... who was, who was a big impact on my fighting career, and he's really nice. He's the yin and y- When we were training, we, he's the, he's very much the soft side to me.
Yeah. Good cop, bad cop.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't need any, um, motivation to train or anything else like that. That wasn't his job. His job was to be essentially just the nicer, the nice person in my life.
Mm-hmm.
That was what he was. He's the most beautiful man who just, who just loved me and trained me and showed me a side that I've never seen.
I never grew up with love, so it, it was kind of weird.
Yeah.
Um, but I know that's what my gym needs. I know it n- So I hired him to come in and coach- Right ... so we could have that element in the gym 'cause I know I'm hard to deal with. I know this. Like I'm, I'm fully aware of it. And again, it's got nothing to...
I'm not bragging and I don't think anyone would think I'm bragging 'cause they'd think I'm an asshole. But it's just, um, yeah, I can't relate to excuses. Sorry. And when you boys listen to this, fucking remember, no excuses. I can't. I can't do it.
Is there like a moment you're most proud of that at, with your coaching?
Uh, coaching there's... Okay, so I see coaching as different reasons. I see coaching as my students committing-
Mm-hmm ...
to their training. When I see them... The wins, I want them 100%. I'm a winner. I want to win. But if they successfully go through a fight camp
I'm, I'm happy. I'm, I'm, I'm genuinely happy, and I can walk them, I can walk them to the cage knowing we've done everything. Mm-hmm. And essentially I'm walking myself to the cage. I'm walking myself to the cage and saying, "Dylan, you've done everything you possibly could." It just happens to be my fighter that's walking and doing it.
But to me, if I'm-- when I've given everything and they've followed me along on that journey and done the same thing, then I'm
good. Mm.
I can't ask for- No ... I can't ask for more than these boys, you know what I mean? And that's all I want. It really is. I don't... Again, the wins are, again, the wins I, I want.
Have you ever had, like, a student completely change their life through, uh, mixed martial arts?
I'm still early in my coaching career.
Yeah.
You know? So I haven't really, like, had that moment. Like, I have... It's not enough right now to see a, a dramatic change. There's definitely changes, 100%. Yeah. Like I've, I've, yeah, I've had students dramatically change their whole lifestyle, you know? And they're young too, which is really pleasing Old is good too.
Yeah, but it just, like to see where that young person, and when I s- look at that young person, I'm looking at myself again. I'm like, well, we're changing the course of your direction-
Mm ...
at an earlier age, so you're not gonna have to really fuck up as much as I did or find your place because I'm sort of installing those lessons prior to them getting there.
And again, we can't-- Another thing is too, you can't control the situation. You can only be you. You can only do what you do and, and it's not even hope that they find their way. Just, just if they find their way, they find their way. Mm. You know? And if they make changes, and I, I'm very mindful at letting them know that if you don't-- I don't want any praise.
I don't want any thank yous. I don't want anything, because why? Because I have no one to thank for me changing. I did it.
Mm-hmm.
I am the one who lives in my body. I am the one who deals with the pain. I am the one who deals, has to wake up and live in this fucking body. You know what I mean? So if you make a change, bro, congratulations to yourself for fucking doing it because it's the hardest thing to do.
Mm.
Change is so hard, bro. Like- Yeah ... and it's just like we have people that carry on on the journey and assist in that process, but I've had so many people not.
No.
I've had so many people just give in.
Well, it ki- it-- That's what I like. It's like down-- The amount of support that like my friends and family gave me-
Mm
they're,
they're not gonna do it. It's, it's you versus you. And if you wanna do it-
Yeah ...
you've gotta do it. If not, then you're not there. That's it.
Yeah.
Simple as that, really.
And you know, I mean, we can get happy and we can thank everyone and stuff like that, but I'd, I, I want men to especially to like really give themselves some fucking credit.
Mm.
Like it's so hard as a man to like change, make that, 'cause there's so many elements working against you. Like just- You know, life and we have to deal with so much and we've got so much on our plate and we just, we, we, we have a responsibility and it, and it's a hard, it's a hard expectation to live up to.
Um, so trying to do that and navigate your own demons and your own life ins- inside of that is fucking... You know what I mean? Yeah. And again, I wouldn't speak on it if it wasn't me, and that's all I'm doing, just speaking on myself. Like, it's... So it's like, I just want men to, like, give themselves a bit more credit, not in a hairy fairy way.
No. Just, like, fucking... You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to fucking go on Instagram either and fucking say, "I'm..." You know? I'm gonna say I'm that man. "Thank you, me, for being me." Like, fucking. Like, people are gonna come after you. Like, just fucking-
Yeah ...
give y- y- you know, you're doing good. Mm. You know what I mean?
You're doing good. Men are really good, you know? And people need to be... Men need to be told that more.
Mm.
And I'm just... Again, this is what this environment does for me. It allows me to make men feel good about themselves through physical activity, um, through communication, being able to actually speak to them, um, and show them physically and mentally why they're doing things.
It's just I enjoy the process of this because I, I get to speak to them and then I get to put them through something grueling-
Mm ...
and see them overcome it.
Yeah.
And then I'm like, "Hey, see? You can do it, bro."
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Quite rewarding for you as
a coach. Yeah, very rewarding. Yeah. Yeah. Again, like I said, wins aside, like, seeing breakthroughs like that-
Mm
you know? And I get messages from, you know, members and stuff showing me their weight loss and whatever. It's all irrelevant, but to them it's like, it's amazing. You know what I mean? And it's like everyone's making little changes- Mm ... and it's like, again, celebrate your little wins.
Celebrate the day. Mm.
That's it.
All right.
You know? We don't. We do... We, we get embarrassed.
Mm. You
know? And I'm guilty, 100%. And I didn't actually think about this till my wife told me that, "You need to, like, sign the new member up." Cool. Yeah, whatever. Like- Yeah. Fucking sell it, be happy. You know what I mean? And it's like, to me it was like happy just...
I was so hardwired to think I can be sad, so I, I, I, I... If I'm gonna be happy, I know sad's around the corner. So if I just stay mellow, if I just stay this, then the, the sad won't disappoint me as much. So I just try to not enjoy anything.
Mm.
You know what I mean? Yeah, that's a good fucking- Yeah. That's a good one.
Yeah, do that. I think it's
fear of being happy
because, you know- Yeah, I'm too afraid. Yeah. Yeah, I was too afraid to be
happy. Don't allow, yeah, don't allow yourself to
be
happy. Yeah.
Yeah. And it g- it was through my fight career too. Don't, don't be happy 'cause it's gonna be taken away from you. Yeah. You know?
Instead of, like, enjoying the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I never... Fuck, that's, that's my one regret, man. I'm
about not look, like,
not enjoying it.
Yeah, not enjoying it. Yeah.
Being too fucking... And it's weird too, you know, because I'm too afraid to be happy.
Mm. So- A lot of people are, aren't they?
Yeah. It's weird,
isn't
it?
Mm. It's like I'm not afraid to walk in the cage and fight- Yeah ... but I'm afraid to celebrate it. I'm afraid that I did it. I'm afraid to be, give myself credit. I'm afraid to be happy. Eh, it's not good.
Your own worst critic.
Yeah.
Mm. A lot, everyone is, aren't they as well? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people are.
Yeah.
I think it needs to, like you said, it needs to change, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And it, it does, for me, it dun- doesn't take much, and again, I'm only using myself as an example. It just really is just, like, trying to celebrate small wins.
Mm.
You know what I mean? And I can thank, you know, my wife for that-
Mm
'cause she tells me. You know? And again, we need that sort of fucking yin and yang in your relationship. Yeah. We can't just always be hard.
No.
You know?
We can't. Well, I, I'll ask you one question. I just wanna b- end there.
Mm.
I really appreciate you coming on. With McGregor and Holloway coming up-
Mm ...
that massive fight, McGregor back in the cage, who do you reckon?
Holloway.
Yeah?
Yeah. Now this is a thing too I have with my fighters too, and I get asked these questions all the time, you know? Oh, yeah. Mm. And it's just, like, you, you gotta, like, start... We can only go off stats. Mm. We can only go off s- you can't go off, okay, is McGregor coming off a bender? Like, is McGregor-
fucking... You know what I mean? We don't know.
No.
Like, on paper, stylistically, it's gonna be a great match up.
Mm. Yeah.
But it's just like, I don't think... I always have to take people's background into consideration because the stats are the stats, and that's just, well, look at the stats and you don't need my opinion.
Mm.
Yeah, you'll get the answer. But it's like, I'm gonna just, I have to take off McGregor's lifestyle-
Yeah. ...
and everything he's gone, gone through, going through. I just, I... And Holloway coming from the islands, like I just-
Mm.
And, and I mean, he's a superstar too. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure he gets swamped and everything outside that.
Yeah. I'm going Holloway. Yeah. You know? That's it.
Done. I
really appreciate it. Awesome, brother. Appreciate it, brother. Yeah. Awesome, man.
Ah.
All good. It was a pleasure.
Oh, for sure. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it a lot