EP03: I Just Kept Going Until I Felt Nothing
When did things start getting heavier and maybe a bit outta control
when I was out. Just take it too far. Um,
what do you mean by taking it too far?
I, I was getting kicked out clubs.
You spoke about your mum finding some drugs in your, in your clothes. What, um, what did she say and what was, was their reaction?
A it's probably a good thing they didn't, 'cause they probably would've just got all defensive in an argument.
Did you ever get to the point where you were thinking you'd like or started to seek a new relationship?
After that. Yeah, it was like, uh, like seeing someone for a little bit, but I probably had it in my head.
You don't wanna get too close to someone just in case it something happens again. Um,
is there one thing
in particular that you weren't ready to say?
Welcome to Episodes of Life. In the last episode, I spoke with Daniel about the days, weeks, and months following Lydia's funeral with the shock wearing off, and the grief and guilt starting to really set in. This episode is about what came next. The ways he tried to cope and the ways he tried to escape.
Daniel, when did things start getting heavier and a bit out of control?
Uh, don't feel it probably wasn't long after just finding any excuse to go out and not just be at home with my thoughts. Um, and yeah, just when I, when I was out, just take it too far. Um,
what do you mean by taking it too far?
I, I was getting kicked outta clubs.
Um. My mates had to like confiscate my drugs off me. Um, I had to go to like medical rooms, like in clubs and stuff. Uh, yeah, just, yeah, blackout just completely gone.
So you're really trying to numb the pain at this stage. Yeah. We talked a little bit about the, the drinking, but it progressed to, to heavier stuff,
didn't I?
Yeah, yeah. Um, I'll probably use Cat, but. I just do there too much, just black out. Just be an absolute dead weight gone. Um, and then just come back out of whatever you wanna call it, a kale or whatever and just go straight back in one. Just in and out, in and out. Just, yeah. And then just got so bad the mates had to con escape and drugs off me.
I had to, I say get kicked outta clubs every time I'd go out. Um, there's medical tents, but I just wouldn't stop. I wouldn't stop, you know, I just. If anyone else like blackout or your mates confiscate your drugs or you get kicked outta club and they'd probably be all right. Call it a night. I'll just, I'll just carry on.
Nothing happen. Was it
just when you were going out or were you doing it more than just the weekends?
Uh, mostly just going out, but say if I had a bit left over from the weekend, I'd probably during the week just be sat on board, like fucking, like thought going around my head. Have a little go. Um, I remember my mom doing the washing, like finding.
Baggy and the, my, I think it was that stuff in it as well, um, in my pocket as well. Um,
did they know prior to that that you were,
they probably, they, they must have. Yeah. They, they knew, um, yeah, they, they knew I was sort of, yeah. Dibbling dabbling in it and, uh, yeah, they knew. Yeah.
Did you know you were overdoing it?
Probably At the time I didn't feel like it, I was just, 'cause I was just using it as a vice, as an escape. It was just. I use like what I'd done at the time to deal with it. Um, yeah, probably like all the time I didn't feel like else I kept on doing it, I suppose. Didn't think about everyone else. So my friends look, having to look after me, um, and like seeing me in that way.
Um, they probably didn't think of them and I would just do it all over again sort of thing. So, yeah.
You spoke about your mum finding some drugs in your, in your clothes. Mm-hmm. What, um, what did she say and what was, was their reaction?
I, I don't. Actually remember, I can't even remember if Face did say anything, and maybe it's probably a good thing they didn't, 'cause they probably would've just got all defensive in an argument and probably would've made things worse.
Um, so I think they kind of, they knew I was using it and I think they just knew that I had such a good, such a good friendship group. Um, like my brothers love 'em all dearly. Um, they kind of, they knew they, they were worried, but they didn't have to worry to the extent where. I would be out with just people I didn't know.
They knew I was out with like very close friends, so I knew I was, they were looking after me. Sure. I was just a liability, absolute liability at that time. Yeah.
Looking back now, do you think you were using and going to that extent to numb more so, or, or punish yourself?
Probably just numb. Numb the self, numb it and just not think about it.
Um, yeah. I dunno. You just, everyone, you either probably at the start using, you either blow your brains out or drink a lot and I, at that stage that was what I used to cope with, what was going on.
Sure. Would it take away the feelings of, of grief and guilt?
Yeah. I, at the time even, I'd just be black out and I could, I dunno, where I was, just blackout.
There's no, I didn't know what was going on. You weren't feeling anything? I wasn't feeling anything. I, I just didn't have a clue what was going on. I just come back around. Mates would just be there. Just,
did that feel like a relief at the time? Like as, as you go into a night thinking, well, you're not planning on, on doing, but are you thinking, well I'm looking, you know, subconsciously I'm looking forward to this night out?
'cause it will give me some form of relief of what I'm feeling during, during the day.
Yeah, probably. And I probably, another thing, I probably didn't feel like a repercussion if did go wrong. I was just, I did not care. I was just. Probably not. Like I've always been, I, yeah, I just do that as my advice. Hope everyone has their own sort of advice to deal with it, and at that time wasn't the best.
How long did that period do you think, go on for where you felt like you really were, let's say, a little outta control?
Well, probably all the way up to COVID. Um, yeah, that was another weird, weird fire. Just that was strange as well. It's just nothing feels real m sort of years just, yeah. But yeah, probably COVID, um, stopped me from going out.
I wanna get to COVID and talk through that particular time for you. But, um, just to finish off on this, this parting phase, this, this, mm-hmm. Wiping yourself out phase. You talked about your friends and how did they support, you said they had to take your drugs off you. What did that actually look like?
Well, music on Amsterdam, uh, 2019 and yeah, I took it too far once again. And my good mate, the pitch, he's got me arm, his arm round me, like in my ear, telling me off and he's like taking my drugs off me. And they've edited, edit the photo to Yeah, it's funny. Yeah. But um. Not funny, but it is. But yeah, that's, that's probably last I can think of, like taking it too far as that picture.
Sure. Was there any time, and whether it was due to the, the parting or, or not, throughout this whole sort of time where you, you know, through what you're going through, you, you did or said anything that you, you now look back on that you wish you hadn't or that you're embarrassed about?
Oh yeah. It's, uh.
Just like I said, I was a liability. I probably embarrassed myself a lot. Um, and probably half, I don't even remember. So, but the one that sticks in me air, um, it was my cousin, my cousin's wedding. Right. Yeah. Your
cousin's wedding. Where was that?
Uh, it was lovely though. Lovely. I can't, somewhere like the Somerset, that sort of way.
Uh, Devin, that Somerset. So I, um, that sort of way. Can't remember off the top of my head, but it was like, yeah, lovely, lovely area. Um, but yeah, I just kind of had a bit too much to drink. Um, probably like mentally was not coping as well. Had a lot going on in the head. Um, probably think about Lydia a lot, um, because of him obviously.
I'm happy for him. Very happy for him. Um. But you're thinking like, if nothing you, this could have been, this could have been me, sort of thing. I thinking about her a lot and then thinking about my Nana lock, she, she couldn't have been, she wasn't there. She couldn't be there, and my mom was upset. So kind of just at that time to not think about it and not deal with them sort of emotions, I just went to me.
Yeah, just took it too far. Too much to drink, I think. Had like hit fast with tequila, drinking wine, drinking cider shots, and just blackout drunk again. Um, I think had an argument with my uncle. I was buying my 16-year-old cousin a shot at the bar. Me auntie caught me and I told her the fuck off. I had an argument with me auntie, so I was just, I was just embarrassed by that whole day, and I apologized to them and apologize again.
That's like the one that. I thought I've ruined like my cousin's wedding. Do you know what I mean? 'cause I was just an embarrassment and a liability to the family sort of thing that day. Yeah.
Did that stick with you for a while afterwards?
Yeah. Yeah. Did that, yeah. I don't wanna, I'm very close to my family.
I love them. I didn't wanna argue with them and stuff like that.
I hope this question doesn't upset you, but I wanna ask whether during this time of partying or even that night, not when you're blackout drunk. Did it ever occur to you of whether Lydia was looking down and seeing how you're coping and whether you could be doing it a little bit differently?
Did that ever cross your mind?
Probably not at that time. No. No. You're just in kind of body, like self-destruct mode, I guess. You just, yeah, don't really care. Like you just don't care about anything at that time. It's just self-destruct. Just see what you can see, how much, how much abuse you can do to yourself, I suppose, is.
Sure.
I don't know. Yeah.
Yeah. So then COVID rolls round.
Yeah.
Is COVID, what did you make a, um, obviously COVID is gonna cut the, the social scene straight away, as we all know. Yeah. Um, but was that the thing that stopped the, the, the, the spiraling, the drug taking the, the overdoing It was that?
Yeah. Yeah.
Definitely.
So was that. Was that the fact that COVID came around, was that kind of a, a blessing at the
start? Yeah, I've, I've said this to a few people. I, I know COVID was a tough time for everyone and a lot of people, but it probably done me a favor, to be honest with you. Yeah. It stopped me from. Going out and doing what I was doing.
And, uh, luckily I was, uh, worked the whole whole time through. Um, okay.
So you were able to go
to work? Yeah, I think it, I, at the time, at the start of COVID, I probably think I wanna be putting furlough because like my mates were all not working, blah, blah, blah. But um, I think looking back it was good that I worked the whole time.
'cause if. Was stuck at home, I would've just gone mad. I would've lost my mind. I think, yeah, I would've, I don't feel I would've been good. I think I would've been in a pretty dark place. Yeah.
So talk me through that time then. Obviously you, you, you've, the partying stopped, you're, um. You're obviously, I would assume the drug taking has slowed, slowed, dra dramatically, if not stopped all altogether.
Um, was it a time of reflection? Was it a time of realizations for you?
Yeah, I think it just gave me a chance to, um, kind of maybe slow the mind down. Um, stop. Using the other drugs and the other order drink. I think that's, as you find, that's a short term fix. Um, and probably in the long run makes you, makes it worse to be honest.
But, um, yeah, I, yeah, definitely I started smoking weed. Um, only some sort of advice I suppose, I think everyone did at that sort of time. Um, so I started smoking weed quite regularly during, um, COVID. Um, and it kind of just helped me sort of slow my mind down actually. Reflect and think about everything in a sort of different way.
Um, and having the space to do it, just that I'm chilling out and yeah, I think it was, it was good. It did help me a lot. Um, but it was just a weird time. Obviously it's tough not seeing friends and family, but I think it just gave me that time to have my own space and reflect a bit, I guess. Yeah.
So it was a, a, a benefit and a circuit breaker to.
Hitting the wall with what you had been doing. But was there a flip side to it? Was, was the silence, was the, was the, was the time not being, being able to be around people? Did that, you know, keep the, the voices in the head going and, and that sort of thing Was there, was there a negative side to it?
But obviously it was like negative?
Obviously couldn't see friends and family, but I think just. It did help. It wasn't when it was first start, it was obviously quite strict. So I just, luckily the weather was good in England, which you never know. Um, but we had a, we had blessed, we were blessed with that, um, weather. But yeah, I think I, like I said, just started smoking weed and, I don't know, it just kind of helps you, helps me slow, like, slows my mind down and not, not my mind's not going a hundred miles per hour all the time.
And just think about. The night and everything else that goes with it. Um,
so while you feel as though the alcohol and the other drugs
Mm.
Were just a numbing mechanism and something that w it was masking
Mm.
Not helping with the problem, do you feel as though the weed was a bit different?
Yeah. 'cause I kind of, it's weird saying, but I kind of like talk to myself in my own head when I'm stoned and think about everything.
Caught sort of have my own counseling sessions in my own head, if that kind. I totally, it doesn't make any sense, but I kind of just, yeah. Chill out, listen to a bit of music and it just slows up, just slows my mind down. I just, yeah. Instead of like the everything else going on, it kind of just slows it down.
I kind of think and reflects on a, in, in a different way and I kind of like my own talk to self in my own head sort. So
it felt like it maybe was filtering and, and rearranging your, your thoughts Yeah. Into something that was starting to make a little bit of sense.
Maybe, yeah, maybe. Um,
were you living at home at this time?
Yeah, I still, I was still with my parents and my brother.
Okay. Did they know you were smoking weed?
Was it
open?
Yeah. Yeah. They've been, they were quite relaxed about it. Um, as the, like the restrictions sort of ease in England. Um, we had like two few of my, a couple of my mates come round on like a Friday.
We'd sit in the garage and get stoned to music, play Uno and just talk like, help me like, um. And mum and my dad just let 'em come around and they, it's just, we call 'em, they're always good nights. Yeah. Um, garage sessions.
Right. Well, you're obtaining it illegally at this stage, or had you gone to Yeah. We all know that medicinal cannabis now is available and mm-hmm.
And that, you know, probably four things that you've, you've been through. Yeah. But at that time you were just, just out there just scoring.
Yeah. Yeah, just getting it off the street, off the, um. But I, yeah, and I went, I started seeing a counselor again, um, when I moved to the Gold Coast, and she said, you'd probably be able to get the me medicinal cannabis, because I told her I, I why smoke it and stuff like that.
And so, yeah, I've been on the medicinal since, um, been on the Gold Coast.
Yeah. Okay. And that started, you said during COVID
smoking.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
But is it now? Was it then, or was it ever a daily occurrence?
Um, it's never, no, never been a daily occurrence to be fair. Um, probably quite, people probably laugh quite weird it Monday, Tuesday, I don't Wednesday like a midweek.
I do like a little chill out midweek, um, first date I don't Friday then, then just the weekends. Yeah. So not, try not to do it every day.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay. So definitely a, a. Probably would I be, would it be fair to say that when you discovered that and found its medicinal, um, characteristics as it was having on you Yeah.
That the, um, that you felt that was the first thing that really made quite a, quite a difference?
Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I, yeah. This is, I'm glad that I didn't go on the antidepressants. We talk about in, they got offered to me like, doctor, oh, they don't really care. They just go, here's your see from P c's antidepressants.
They just, um, but didn't take it. I, at that time and where my head was at at the time, I probably at addictive mentality, I would've probably just got addicted to him and not probably still be on 'em today. So I'm glad I didn't. And then obviously I used other drugs. To try and numb it and help me. They obviously with just a short term fix and then obviously COVID come round and started smoking weed a bit more regular.
I find it kind of is a good vice and helps me to slow down.
Okay. Yeah. So you come outta COVID, you're having your, your garage sessions. Um, is life starting to feel a little better?
Yeah. I suppose you kind of trying, try learning to live with, lay the up to a bit. There a bit longer, um, before it just, it just felt like a constant, you just on the down and then Yeah, I think the up start going, you know, that rollercoaster, getting the ups and downs, um, they probably were
they getting shorter and
Yeah.
The day, like the lows, the lows were getting. Yeah. And the up, they're definitely sort of getting a bit of a pattern instead of just a constant low. So yeah,
I guess we're now. Two to three years since, since the accident, um, you are still thinking about Lydia every day?
Mm-hmm. Still do? Yeah.
At that point.
And even now, do you, is it hard, was it hard for you to think, why isn't everyone thinking about her every day like I am? No. Was that ever a thing,
people No. No, because people still would, they, like, it's hard, like, how'd you bring it up? How you talk about it, if you, probably you wanna talk about it, but just, uh,
did well, you know, now that we're there at that three year mark, let's just call it, um, did anyone bring it up?
Did you bring it up? Did you want it brought
up? Yeah, I probably did. I think we, like, before COVID, all COVID, like we went on, on the anniversary, like met up with like a big group of friends that had drinks. You probably had a few drinks and everyone starts talking about it and stuff. So it's a bit easier.
Um, probably then, but not probably like a normal conversation. Like you wouldn't go out and meet up and night, you wanna talk about it, are you alright? And sort of thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Do you mind me asking at what point or if there has been a, a point during that particular part of your life, let's call it from COVID and the, the next couple of years after, did you ever get to the point where you were thinking you'd like or started to seek a new relationship?
How did that, how did that play out internally for you?
Yeah, I, it was after that. Yeah. It was like, uh, seeing someone for a little bit, but I thought he had it in my head. I couldn't be truly happy there. I probably wouldn't let myself be truly happy there. Um, like that's, I feel like that's like England's like Lydia needed to, and I thought like if, when I was hearing this girl and we'd go out for like, I know bite to eat or a drink or whatever.
Um, they'd be like, anxious about going out. 'cause people you think people would see you and be like, why is, are you moving on? No, he shouldn't, shouldn't be. Moving on. It's too quick. I just got that in your own head. No one's saying it. It's just that self so different,
a different level of guilt on, on a
Yeah, it's like, it's, it's kind of progressive.
Like it's a different feeling, a different sort of guilt. And your self-doubt. You're probably not letting yourself be happy. You don't feel like you don't deserve it. I dunno. Anxious or what everyone thinks and they see you out. That
must've
been pretty difficult.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I think getting to Australia, this fresh start has done me some good, I think.
Yeah.
Okay. During those times that you were, you know, going on a, on a date or, or seeing someone did, um, did you feel at that point that you'd ever be able to get to the point where you'd, you could see yourself? Being in another proper relationship.
Yeah, that's don't, that's a good question. Uh, pro. Yeah.
Yes and no. I think probably always being a bit like guarded with it. I don't Probably in your own head thinking you don't wanna get too close to someone just in case it something happens again. Um,
was that a big thing for you?
Yeah. That feeling and then like, the feeling of you don't wanna get too close 'cause you feel like you are cursed.
I dunno. That sort of feeling like people, anyone you love is. If I keep distant to everyone, keep pushing everyone away. 'cause you just follow anyone you love. There's something bad's gonna happen to 'em sort of feeling. Yeah.
So there's a lot of demons still running around in your mind.
Yeah, yeah. There is.
Um, kind of, yeah, they'd always sort of be there, I think. Um, kind of learned to cope with him. This is a, yeah, it takes a while to learn to live
with them. Obviously, new relationships was one area that w you know, through this, that was always gonna be a difficult new phase to get through. Were there any other, I guess what we call normal phases in, in someone's life that you now feel are more difficult for you than
Yeah.
You know, than, than someone who hasn't been through the trauma you have.
At the start, like work probably. Um, 'cause no, like, it's just no one knows what's happened to, like, you just, you're probably not probably very proactive at work. You probably like don't wanna be there most days. Um, and yeah, work was probably quite a struggle for a little while, um, because I was obviously still struggling with everything.
Um, and then like the people you are working for don't really know. So they don't really, can't like, can't because you don't talk about how'd you. Hell, some, I don't know. It's, yeah, work was hard, but then, um, met a good mate of mine through work and you, I started doing work again, so that was good. Um, he, yeah, he looked after me.
I think we met like each other at a good, good point. I was struggling. Eve was, had a lot going on. He was struggling and we kind of started working together. Um, he self-employed and started being, and yeah, he made it a bit easier. Yeah.
Through that, that period. Did you find there was a difference with how you would be and how you would feel when you were around people who knew and people who didn't know?
No, probably like at the start and everything going on a lot, but I liked being around, um, like my close friends and family. Um, I think like that work thing again is just 'cause they don't know and they dunno why you, like, you're not proactive or you're not doing much at work or you're just making mistakes and.
They just, yeah. They don't understand why you're doing it, so it's pretty hard of being around them sort of thing.
Yeah.
Because you're trying to, yeah. It's just, yeah.
Being that, you know, you are still living with this every minute of, of every day. When you, when you came across new people in your life that you met through, you know, whatever sort of boat of life and you are living with this, they've got no idea.
Did you feel a need to want to. Tell people who didn't know or need to to keep it to yourself or, or neither
if it kind of Yeah. May, if it come up in that conversation sort of thing, maybe I'd, I'd bring it up and tell 'em sort of thing. Um, or if you like talk to someone and they've been saying through something similar, I say, yeah, yeah, I've been struggling as well, sort of thing.
Um, that that's all. Yeah. But I've never sort of go up to someone and say, yeah, bring it up. Really. No.
Yeah. Before we bring this chapter. To a closing in our final episode, talk about the big change when you, you did move to Australia. I want to know what you think the biggest thing that you've gone through in your head, that all the people around you don't know.
What is there? That you want people to know in that period? 'cause you, there is a change as you move to Australia.
Yeah.
That we've, we've talked through from the time then to, to that point. I, I, when you first came to me, you said there's a lot of stuff I went through that people don't know Yeah. That I haven't said.
And I want to know, is there one thing in particular that, that, that stands out that you'd like people to know that they wouldn't ask and that. You weren't ready to say
they like suicidal, sort of fought. I haven't told anyone them to, like, all of this is why I'm doing it. Just 'cause there's so much to say.
It's everything that's
with
everything I, this is, I wanna get it out. It's all of, it's been rattling around in my head for seven years and I want to just get out in my head and hopefully it'll help me. Um, but yeah, all of this, there's, there's so much I wanna say and there's so much, this is why I'm doing it.
Like This's probably taking it to the extreme, but I feel like this needs to be done. I need to get it out and. Hopefully it'll, um, help me doing it.
Yeah. Yeah. Look, the one thing I think I've taken from this journey so far that I really can't fathom myself having not been through an experience like yours, is that Yeah.
From that moment on your life changed and it literally has been, you know, on your mind. Yeah. Every single day.
Yeah. Yeah.
And. For everyone else, you know, they, they move on and, um
mm-hmm.
This is your chance to, to explain that to
Yeah.
To people.
Yeah. I think it's, yeah. I feel I need to do it. This feels like the right thing to do, you know?
Uh,
and then the next thing was you decided to move countries.
Yeah. Needed a fresh start.