EP02: What's Even Real Anymore

 

Yeah, I just, I just question everything. Like nothing felt real. I was just like, how is this happening or what is going on? It just just felt like an absolute movie.

Take me back to that next morning after,

yeah. Um. Probably a bit hung over. Um, probably like the shocks still there. And, uh, I probably like questioning like that still doesn't feel real in a way, I guess.

And question everything. Like what is real

feel as though the whole world was crumbling?

Grief, like people, like a road coasters, like lot of ups and downs and

you have, and still to this point still blame yourself for, for her death.

Yeah. That, that guilt is still there. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you think that's ever gonna go away?

Um,

how long do you feel as though that went, went on for?

You mentioned some dark thoughts. Did you ever contemplate.

Yeah, suicide. You think about like just getting in a car and just driving with no destination, just getting away, escaping. And then the other thing I've always like thought about was like Russian roulette when they get there.

Welcome to episodes of Life. In the last episode, Daniel and I spoke about Lydia the night that changed everything. The Goodbye at the funeral and the other remembrance events. This episode starts the day immediately after those formal occasions when for everyone else, life went back to normal, back to work, back to the everyday routine while he was left sitting there with what's happened, with what's become a very different future, Daniel, take me to the morning after Lydia's birthday, after you had pretty much had that last formal celebration of her life.

Yeah. Um, probably a bit hung over, um, probably like the shocks still there and hasn't wor worn off. Um, I probably, not questioning like that still doesn't feel real in a way, I guess, and question everything, like what is real? I, I don't know. It's just, yeah.

Was it at that, that moment or that day that you sort of realized h hang on.

The, the emotion of everything and everyone being consumed with the event and the aftermath, that for everyone else, that the closure point had sort of been reached and they were at a point ready to move on. But you, you weren't what, when did that point come

closure? Point? Probably a lot of people. We still haven't got it.

I don't know. Maybe I still haven't got it.

Yeah.

Um. I feel like that's probably like the hardest part of grief, I guess, is accepting it and being able to move on and just live with it instead of it, um, kind of taking over you and that's all you can like, think about and stuff like that.

Sure. When were you planning to go back to work at, at that point, you know, your friends are, are back at work.

Um, you know, normal life has such starts to. To roll.

Yeah.

It wasn't like that for you at that point, was it?

No, I don't. I probably maybe went back too soon. Um, I dunno how long it was, but, um, I don't, I don't think my first day, I don't think I lasted too long. Um, probably cut the hours, maybe not even that.

Uh, remember just like breaking down and I think it just hit me, to be honest with you, maybe I was just in. Because everything was so intense for a little while in my little bubble, and it's like, that's like the first day back to reality. I guess it kind of just clicked up maybe again. Um, but yeah, I just remember breaking down, uh, yeah, packed my tools up, loading my, then rang my mom.

Luckily she was at my auntie's. Um, I loved dearly and I went, I went around there to see them. Yeah.

At that point, did you think life would ever go back to normal?

Nah, probably not. At times it still doesn't feel normal, to be honest. It still doesn't feel real. Everything that's gone on. Yeah, it just, yeah, it just feels weird.

I dunno. Yeah. Still that sort of shock and stuff like that sometimes. Yeah.

At what point did it start to move away from numb numbness to reality?

Probably that, probably that first day back at work. Um. Because that's like the first day back to sort of reality. Like you said, it's like your first day back at work, back to normal, and you just kind of just gotta try your best to cope with it and get on with it and take day by day, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. People check in on you a lot in the, in the early days. How did, how did that feel?

Oh, we appreciate it. Um. You do. Uh, but it was a bit like overwhelming as well at times. 'cause you're getting like messages of people you've, I haven't spoke to in years or you don't really know. You just like, you appreciate people messenger and, but yeah, it got, did get a bit overwhelming at times.

How were you managing the, the balance between being with people and being on your own and, and was there. One or the other that you, you felt like you preferred at, at, at that time?

Uh, at the start probably being around people like my close friends and family, um, like just trying to keep your mind busy and active and off off what you love, like the, um, off the other stuff.

'cause you think about that for too long, it's like dark faults start popping in your head. Um, but yeah, at the start, definitely just being around like friends and family. Uh, maybe not given the time to actually sit back and think about it and yeah. Probably going out a bit too much and stuff like that.

Yeah.

At times, did it become uncomfortable or even awkward being around others and whether they knew whether to talk about it or whether you did or didn't?

No. Yeah. The first time I probably, I, I felt that. Quite a lot like back home because you feel like everyone's just looking at you and like they're probably not, but it's just in your own age you've got that anxiety.

I guess. People just, you think everyone's looking at you thinking, uh, that's him. Like the one that the girlfriend passed away and la da la and the first time I probably really felt it, it was my friend's 21st, not long after Lilia passed away. Um. I went, I just, you know, go out, go and spend time with friends, see my friends with my friends 21st, but was a tough night.

I felt like everyone was just eyes on me looking at me, dunno what to say, dunno how to act. Um, and yeah, that's probably the only time, that's probably like the first time and probably aggress bit after that, gonna places and stuff. Yeah.

Did most of your friends and family know whether to, to bring up the, the subject?

No, probably not.

Do you remember whether you wanted them to, do you, do you remember whether you felt like it was being done too much or too little?

Probably at the start, not, no one really brings it up. I dunno. Like it probably, probably tough for them to talk about, um, and how they really do bring it up.

And probably at the start, I, I wouldn't wanna talk about it. Um, I was like that, trying to just not talk about it. Put a brave face on, um. But as, as it's like years have gone on, I wanna talk about it, you know, it helps to talk about it, it helps me to talk about it. Um,

but that took a fair while to, to,

yeah.

It's probably only in the, like last year or so I'd, so I'm probably ready to sit down and talk about it. Maybe that's why I'm doing this. Sure. Um, 'cause I want, like my friends and family. Kind of, they probably won. Like I've been wondering what I've been going on and we head in the past seven years and I wanna talk to them and tell them.

So I think this is a good way of doing it. Um,

sure,

yeah.

There were a couple of other people who were in and around your life or your, your, your friends and family's life who passed away around about the same time.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, mutual friend, um, her boyfriend passed away not long. Um. Before Lydia passed away and she dropped me a message.

Um, I reached out and we um, met up a few times. Uh, it's quite 'cause my mum, she looked into like some charities and stuff for people I could go and talk to, but it not really wasn't really much support for like young adults, like going through grief and stuff. So, um, yeah, met up with Steph, uh, quite a lot.

I think it helped her having something to talk about. It's been something, been through something similar. Um,

who in her life had had passed away?

Uh, her boyfriend.

Yeah. Okay. So it, was she similar to age to you?

Yeah, I think a bit older, but yeah. Similar age. Yeah.

Okay. Do you mind me asking how, how he passed?

Uh, motorbike accident, I think. Yeah.

Okay. So you were in very similar.

Yeah.

Circumstances.

Yeah.

So you feel that relationship at that time had a, had a pretty big impact?

Yeah, I think I, hopefully it helped her like me, like me talking to me. I probably, I think it helped me as well. You know, having someone probably wasn't easy to talk about that.

Um, but it's definitely helped.

How close were the timeframes between the, the two deaths?

Uh, I don't think, trying tot think it was too long. Um, yeah. I couldn't tell you to be exact, but yeah, I don't think it was a

Did Lydia pass away first was

No. No. Or was

her,

her boyfriend passed away

first.

Yeah.

Apart from, you know, Lydia and, and Steph losing her partner.

There were a couple of other there sitting in and around. Your, your circle weren't

there. Yeah. I think back now, 2019 was just an absolute movie. Uh, it doesn't feel real now. Uh, two of my friends, uh, lost siblings. Um. Just, yeah, I dunno. How

did that make you feel? Did, did you feel as though the whole world was crumbling?

Yeah, I just, I just questioned everything. Like, nothing felt real. I was just like, how is this happening or what is going on? It just, just felt like an absolute movie. Um, I feel like you just, 'cause you know how your friends are feeling, so it just brings it all back up again. Like they're just, you're back at like day one with them.

Yeah, it was, it was tough. Yeah. Did

you attend any of the other funerals?

No, I went to, um, awake. Um, but yeah, it's hard again, but just kind of got to be supportive. Like of my friends were to me and like we, I think we were quite lucky in that way. We got a good, good group, good group of friends and we just supported each other through it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Cool, cool. So obviously I would assume the days were very long during that, that period of the first few weeks and, and months. How were you, how were you sleeping, Daniel?

Um, can't really remember, but probably not too good. 'cause I think my mum, uh, rang the doctor and said, I'll explain what happened and stuff.

And obviously I wasn't asleep. I got offered antidepressants, but I didn't take 'em. Um, don't really know. Just I'm kind of glad I didn't at that time. Um. And yeah. And then they gave, got some good sleeping pills though. Uh, um, they helped. They, yeah, they helped. Yeah. They, um, but yeah, they, they did help. I definitely wasn't sleeping at the start.

And they did, they helped massively. So

you mentioned some dark thoughts. Did you ever contemplate suicide?

Yeah. Yeah. Not, not really su I haven't thought about. But, um, I just sleepless nights laying in bed when these dark for has come just too like this pressure and redness where we just, yeah. Um, the think about like just getting in my car and just driving with no destination.

Just, just, just getting away, escaping. And then the other thing I've all like thought about was like rushing roulette when they get there, um, revolver and put the one bullet in and spin it and hold your head and see what happens. Yeah.

How did you cope with those kind of thoughts? What, what stopped you from doing.

Either of those two, two

things. Um, a massive thing I thought about a lot, um, was Zio, to be fair, um, like she wouldn't forgive me if I'd done that. Um, and trying and to, and she lost a friend not long before I met her, uh, to suicide as well. So I just thought of her when I had them thoughts and like, she just wouldn't forgive me.

I, I dunno if feel like what you believe, like afterlife, if there is one or not. But if there was, and I'd done that and I see her, she would just be. Give me a gimme, a telling off. So I couldn't, I just thought about her really. Yeah,

sure. Have you ever talked about this to anyone before?

Probably when I went, I went to counseling.

Um, yeah, I got, um, they helped me a lot to be fair because I was, well like, like I said earlier, like people bring it up, how do you bring it up? And probably at the time I didn't wanna speak to my friends and family about it. I was trying to put like a brave face on for 'em. 'cause they're already. Worried about me and I don't wanna, I dunno, just wasn't good at talking at the start.

So I went to counseling and um, yeah, I got very lucky with that. Um, friend, mom done it for no charge. So I like, appreciate that to the day. And it helped me. I was going, I think going once a week at point, probably quite nervous at the start, but it's just nice to have someone that's sometimes you just talk.

They just, just don't really say much. Just kind of give you like different views on it and try different ways to think about it. Yeah, yeah. Definitely helped me at start.

You've talked a lot about the, you know, the, the extreme level of, of grief and the, the guilt. Was there a time that, you know, that the grief started to, to to fall below while the, the level of, of guilt was rising?

No, I don't really know. That's kind, I probably just balance each other out. I think if the grief, there's guilt and yeah, just balance each other out. I think when I'm really low and just think about everything with the grief, that's when the, like the, the guilt starts kicking in and sort just kind of combinates to one.

Did you speak about the guilt? A to the counselor? Yeah. And b, to your family and friends? Probably. Did you, did your family and friends know you were living with that?

No. Probably not. No. I don't feel, I told baby. Don't think, I don't think I probably told 'em the counselor. Yeah.

If we were to ask your, you know, a lot of your close friends, especially from around that time, whether they knew you'd lived with this guilt, even to this, to this day, do you think they would have any idea?

They might have had like a feeling, but I dunno if I ever told them. Um, I might have, I don't know. I can't really remember, but I definitely, in the counseling sessions, I spoke to her about the guilt. Yeah.

So it's fair to say. You have, and still to this point, still blame yourself for, for her death.

Yeah.

That, that guilt is still there. Yeah. Yeah. Do

you think that's ever gonna go away?

Hopefully in time. I think that's just all part of accepting it and what's happening, what's happened, and kind of just moving on far as it is, like, that's probably the wrong word to say. We're not moving on, but it's just.

It's always gonna be there, but just kind of living with it there instead of that, just, that's all you can think about sort of thing.

What was the, the counselor's take on the, the feelings of guilt and how to, how to deal with it?

Um, she kind of just said like grief, like put like a rollercoaster. There's like lot of ups and downs and over time, like the ups will last song and the downs sort of thing.

Um, so yeah. I just think about that really. It's not gonna like the, when you're low and stuff not gonna last forever sort of thing. Yeah.

Did she discuss the, the guilt in specifically with you probably rather, rather than the grief or was she saying that's a symptom of the grief?

No, I probably, yeah, I think we did speak about the guilt.

I can't remember what her comments were. Um, but yeah, I'd probably definitely just speak about the girl I would've fit. It was just the forefront of my mind at that time. So yeah.

Sure. Would it be fair to say that then for some period of time, then as normal life's starting, well, you know, life's gone back to normal for, for, for just about everyone, apart from her, her very nearest and, and, and dearest that you are sort of now just living in a, a survival existence mode.

Yeah, I think it's just that you're still that numbness, that shock, um, just questioning everything, like second guessing everything. Um, yeah, kind of just living like, like always kind say like living, like you got, um, the lights are on, but no one's at home sort of thing.

Yeah.

You just kind of just turn up.

Just

existing.

Yeah. Just, yeah.

How long do you feel as though that went, went on for I,

when maybe you still have that, that sort of feelings now to this day when you are having a lot of dips? Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, but how long were, you know, it was, it was 24 7.

Uh, a little while probably, definitely over a year, I'd say.

Yeah.

Maybe even longer to be honest. Uh, it's, uh, maybe even kind of moving to Australia, I reckon.

And how long was that after the, the accident,

uh, moved to Australia in January 24. Only math. So, um, six years. Is that

Okay? So we'll, we'll cover that a bit further. Yeah. Further along in, in more of an episode. But can I ask you this, now that we've brought that, that up, do you think you made that decision as a, as a circuit breaker to, to try to, again, for want of a better phrase to move on?

Yeah. Um, like I, it kind of just clicked to me. I moved to Australia for a fresh start, so I haven't got allowed to, allowed myself to have a fresh start. And that starts with upstairs in your head. Yeah. Um, yeah.

How was it going to, and again, we're still in that phase of that first few months, maybe six months.

How was it going to places that, you know, you'd, you'd been together?

Yeah, I think could, could be done. Like, um, we were members of like National Trust and we done like one, you know, off every weekend and go for like a nice row surf during a pub. Um, going back to them was quite nice. They brought like good memories back.

But the other places like you, I couldn't drive down the road. The accident happened on, um, there's um, our favorite sort of bar in t Jo St. John's Yard. I didn't really like going in there after, 'cause we went there. A lot of Lydia. Um, yeah, it was like they were places that you, uh, like kind of good memories and you feel closer to her and others, like bad memories.

Like we got, um, there's a nice park, um, near where Lydia lived, um, and we took Stanley a dog for a, walked around there quite a lot. Um, we, and we got a remembrance bench now, so it's quite nice going there and just sitting there on my own, um, with my thoughts sometimes, like, yeah.

Sure was there because you, you did mention, and, you know, I think a lot of people know when they do know someone who's had someone close pass away, how much do I do?

How much do I not do? What do I say? What, what don't I say? And I don't know whether there's a, there's an example of something like this that you can think of. There's no need to name names, but was there anything ever said or done that. Really upset or annoyed you? Probably not deliberately,

no.

But because no one's in your shoes but you

No, yeah.

Mean like, like silly little thing. I know like people just breaking up with their girlfriends and got that like my mate, he like, he broke up his miss at the time and I got, I went round there. He is like in a bad spot. Been being my fucking shoes, you know?

Okay. Wow. Yep. I get it. So trivial things. Well,

well, not like trivial.

I see. Like,

no, but things to you seem trivial.

Yeah. That, yeah.

That aren't in, in everyday life. Yeah. When you're not in the space you are in, but you are seeing them now as, as well.

Yeah. I feel like I'm probably quite numb to most stuff now. Yeah. If I would say like, yeah, I probably don't.

Do you feel like you've lost a little bit of empathy?

Towards life situations of,

of others? No, I wouldn't say that. No. I, it's just probably just quite numb to it all now. I just kind of, oh, it is what it is. I've been through worse, I guess. Like I know it's tough for people at a time, but

Sure.

I dunno. Just numb to it, I suppose.

Sure.

Yeah.

You mentioned that you didn't take on antidepressants, but you took on some sleeping pills, which helped your sleep.

Mm-hmm. Did drinking. Early on become a a, a daily occurrence or,

yeah.

Was So was that something you,

not a daily occurrence? I wouldn't say no.

But it was something you leaned on a bit?

Yeah. I, I've probably go out, probably be out more than I would've been. Um, and you kind of just used that just to numb it like, you know, when you're drinking, I wouldn't know my limit.

I'd just keep going. Just black out. Just see her wake up somehow I got home, blah. Yeah. Just blackout drunk all the time.

Did you feel that was, was helping at the time?

Well, at the, in the moment. Yeah. When you, about next day and stuff? Yeah. Probably not. No.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You mentioned grief came to you in in waves.

Do you remember ever feeling, you know, at a, at a, uh, yeah. At a time when the grief had had subsided just for a little bit, that you were hopeful that might be it, that you were for want of a better phrase on the mend and, and that it would, and then again you'd be hit by another big wave. Yeah. How did you cope with that?

I don't know. Just kind of just take it day by day, I guess. Yeah. There's not really much else you can do. Just kind of get up and. Take it day by day, just turn it up. It's probably one of the hardest parts. Some days not really there, just turn it up just to do something, get outta the house. 'cause it's better than moping around.

Um, but I didn't, probably didn't wanna go into work and stuff and probably didn't, wasn't very productive at work. Ah, after reading, uh,

I'm probably gonna push you here a little bit because I can see the, the grief is still there. This time on, do you feel as though there will ever become a point where you'll have 100% peace with this?

I don't know. Maybe I, maybe this is why I'm doing this. I don't really know to honest, I dunno. It just feels right to do this. So maybe this is me getting it out my head, letting my friends and family see it. And, um, maybe this is like just me accepting it and, but maybe man, move on with it. Yeah. I'm

sure, I would assume, especially in these early days, that there must have been a point in maybe, you know, we're now getting to the point where you think there can be, but there must have been a sense of hopelessness.

I would imagine, that you thought, I'm, I'm always gonna feel this way. I'm, yeah, always. How am I ever going to get out of this, this cycle of grief and, um, and guilt.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Probably difficult, like I look for a long time. Um. Because it's, it's always there, always at the forefront. Like sometimes that's all you can think about really.

Did you feel that the counseling or anything along the way has really taken you a, a big step forward? Is, is, is there any moment in the journey where you thought, actually, I, I, I think this is, is helping?

Yeah, I think definitely the council needed help. Um. There's probably, at the start I was using other stuff to devices like drinks and drugs and, no, not that, they're just short term, not very good.

So I think I, getting back into the football, um, but playing, even gonna watch my team QPI, even though most of the time we'd lose, but it was always a good day out. Um, and then the best days out, um. But yeah. Um, like football, gym, just trying to stay active, keep the mind active, and just spending time with friends and family.

So yeah. That's when you just keeping this, I thought I can't, I don't feel like I can rest. I feel I have to keep my mind, always have to be active and I always have to be busy. 'cause if I'm not, I can't like, relax and, because that's just all I can think about. I just got my mind just go straight back to the night.

Yeah.

Did you spend a lot of time. At or at all? Thinking back to the time before the accident?

Nah.

No,

not really. Nah. Like I like that wherever that, that version's like all of that just died. Well, nah, no. I like think about the memories and with Lydia and stuff like that and granddad, but apart from that it's just that person's like died sort of thing.

I want you to tell me more about that because this series essentially is about, um. How one moment can

mm-hmm.

Can change it all. Have you, have you thought back and, and, and thought how different a person you are compared to, to beforehand? And can you, you, you talk me through that?

I've been more recently I felt like

what, what died with you that night?

Uh,

inside of you?

Probably just. It's taken like seven years to get where I'm now. You know, so it's not like a fast process, but I think like just you, I was 20 at the time, immature, so obviously you're gonna mature and grow, but I think he's maybe learned a lot, maybe a lot mentally, because I've just been battling myself in me head seven years.

So he's kind of built up a bit of a mental re resilience. I don't know. Um, probably a bit stronger, probably like when I was at person. My, my mom said I was like a glass half full. Um, and like Lydia wasn't. So I'm trying to like carry that with me again. Like she was just, um, and I can see how quickly your life can change, like snap your finger and it's just, so I just trying to like, just living, I like just take Dave each day by like saying live in the moment, like people say, you know?

Yeah. Um,

so it did change your, your outlook on life?

Yeah. Them sort of things. I guess, like I said, like having them good, um, devices and they get, get to you realize what sort of helps you think about now. Yeah, I think from day after all the sort of normies go, you go back to work, everyone's going back to work and it's just starts spiraling and spiraling and then you just go off the rails.